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Re: PHRF Racers: Code 6 Mainsail or "Please pass me the roach" [Re: Vampire] #10774
12/12/10 07:17 PM
12/12/10 07:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 76
Wilton, CT
B
bemusv2 Offline
Senior Member
bemusv2  Offline
Senior Member
B
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 76
Wilton, CT
Bill, I totally agree on the class legality thing.

Originally Posted by Vampire
Ok guys I am doing this with the full knowledge that when the boat is in this configuration she is not class.
But Vampire is not class right now any way. I have a Kevlar Main and Carry 3 spinnakers 4 head sails and on the odd race we Carry a spare main.
But should I decide to race class I do have all the stuff to switch her back in 5 minutes.
And yes the sprit will pop off. All that will be left is the hoop next to the Jib horns and the two hard points the pole clips to when extended. And there will be another Spin halyard further up the mast. But that is just for the A sail.
So when we get the west coast fleet together we can party.

But I am doing this to show people that my old J30 still has some great speed left in her. Working with some engineers and an Olympic sailor that is my local North sails loft owner we are looking at improving the boat and taking it to that next level.

Out here on the west coast we have allot of franken boats that have put sprits on and they eat the fleets.

My J30 goes up wind like a scalded cat and we beat everything in our class but when the wind goes aft we see the problem with the boat in our predominantly light air area. The boat can take allot of spinnaker and she is way under sailed for our area. A big A sail will fix this.

I have far too many second place trophies on my shelf. after 20 years of racing PHRF I have seen one over riding thing. The faster boat wins regardless of rating. Its this or I go buy a Flying Tiger F10. But Vampire is fun and has a great interior and the ruder does not snap off in 40kn of wind like the F10.

So I have ordered the sprit at 5' over J and the height for the new spin halyard is being modeled this week at my friends engineering firm.

next when we have hard dimensions comes the A sail.
if all goes well you will be reading about the conversion and how I cleaned up in the NW or how I wasted $3000 on a nice tent.


You didn't want one of those plastic-y made in china tigers anyways wink

Glad to hear that you've taken the plunge and I'm looking forward to hearing how it turns out.

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Re: PHRF Racers: Code 6 Mainsail or "Please pass me the roach" [Re: NaturalHigh] #10777
12/13/10 12:06 AM
12/13/10 12:06 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 147
Vancouver, BC, Canada
Vampire Offline
Past Pacific Northwest District Governor
Vampire  Offline
Past Pacific Northwest District Governor
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 147
Vancouver, BC, Canada
I will post what we are up to and how it goes.
The first big race for this configuration will be Patos Island race in March. a 76 mile race against Radiant Heat. Me and Tony know where are boats are against each other and we have done this race a few times. The main difference this year will be the change in sail.

For all of you hard liners out there that are curious what caused me actually getting off my butt and doing this is.

Well we have a 580 mile race here called the Van Isle 360. you circumnavigate Vancouver island through some of the most amazing waters and challenges to navigation the world has to offer. its just shy of doing a Transpac.
to enter this race you have to have a rating of 135. Well they would not let me in the race when I told them I would just take the hit and race at 135 to my normal 144. So I will get something for my pain. I will bring the boat up to 133 with the new Asymmetrical sail.

Now if you have any idea of the loads I will experience I would appreciate it.

my engineer winced when i told him i routinely fly spinnakers up to 30kn of breeze and I asked him would the sprit take that.

he looked at the bow of the boat and back at me and wanted to know why I would do that?
For the speed. we have some big wind races here in the spring and fall and they are historically big sleigh rides home.

the blocks and rope clutches I am specking will have safe working load of 700lbs.

I wonder what the safe working load of the deck is?


Vampire #18 Don
Bite Me
Re: PHRF Racers: Code 6 Mainsail or "Please pass me the roach" [Re: NaturalHigh] #10779
12/13/10 11:00 AM
12/13/10 11:00 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 137
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Taras Offline
Senior Member
Taras  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 137
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
I did come across this setup,...it looked promising
[Linked Image]

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Re: PHRF Racers: Code 6 Mainsail or "Please pass me the roach" [Re: Vampire] #10783
12/13/10 03:22 PM
12/13/10 03:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 381
Squamish, British Columbia
NaturalHigh Offline OP
Senior Member
NaturalHigh  Offline OP
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 381
Squamish, British Columbia
Originally Posted by Vampire
I will post what we are up to and how it goes.
The first big race for this configuration will be Patos Island race in March. a 76 mile race against Radiant Heat. Me and Tony know where are boats are against each other and we have done this race a few times. The main difference this year will be the change in sail.

For all of you hard liners out there that are curious what caused me actually getting off my butt and doing this is.

Well we have a 580 mile race here called the Van Isle 360. you circumnavigate Vancouver island through some of the most amazing waters and challenges to navigation the world has to offer. its just shy of doing a Transpac.
to enter this race you have to have a rating of 135. Well they would not let me in the race when I told them I would just take the hit and race at 135 to my normal 144. So I will get something for my pain. I will bring the boat up to 133 with the new Asymmetrical sail.

Now if you have any idea of the loads I will experience I would appreciate it.

my engineer winced when i told him i routinely fly spinnakers up to 30kn of breeze and I asked him would the sprit take that.

he looked at the bow of the boat and back at me and wanted to know why I would do that?
For the speed. we have some big wind races here in the spring and fall and they are historically big sleigh rides home.

the blocks and rope clutches I am specking will have safe working load of 700lbs.

I wonder what the safe working load of the deck is?


They wouldn't let you in, even if you agreed to sail to a 135 rating? As far as I recall, the 360 never has a surplus of boats wanting to sail it. A 163% and a large 0.5 oz spinnaker would put you right at 135.

Re: PHRF Racers: Code 6 Mainsail or "Please pass me the roach" [Re: NaturalHigh] #10790
12/14/10 10:33 PM
12/14/10 10:33 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 147
Vancouver, BC, Canada
Vampire Offline
Past Pacific Northwest District Governor
Vampire  Offline
Past Pacific Northwest District Governor
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 147
Vancouver, BC, Canada
The hoop on that pic is very close to the design we are going with. but we will be able to retract the sprit if we want.
don't want to poke anyone with my sprit.

could be called a dirty old man.

but as for the rating. No they wanted to know that my rating was that fast. And they wanted to see a certificate that said 135 or less.
And why do the 163 when I sail as fast as the 163 with a 153 3DL and I get a rating boost for it. and my main is just 1" under the minimum for a class 5 so I get that benefit as well but with a brand new mainsail this thing flys.

When I let Tony play with it he likes it.
No the real area these boats need help with is down wind and with the 6 second bonus for going with a sprit and then the -3 penalty for every foot past 1 foot over J I should be at 133 when I am done with my giant circus tent.

check out the rules at.
PHRF BC


Vampire #18 Don
Bite Me
Re: PHRF Racers: Code 6 Mainsail or "Please pass me the roach" [Re: Vampire] #10884
01/05/11 11:56 PM
01/05/11 11:56 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 26
honeymoon bay b.c.
Z
zeppo Offline
Senior Member
zeppo  Offline
Senior Member
Z
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 26
honeymoon bay b.c.
By rights Zulu and Mai Tai should only provide one view.....their disappearing transoms. In 2005 Limelight went to a mast head symmetrical chute in preparation for the VanIsle 360, they did this so that they would make the rating break. Did this work for them? we'll never know as they went hard aground on their trip to Nanaimo. The only reason I would go with an "A" sail is the relative ease of handling. Gybing a symmetrical chute in big seas and winds off the west coast at night can be challenging. Have you been accepted for V.I. yet or is it too early. If your "in", you'll have a blast.

Re: PHRF Racers: Code 6 Mainsail or "Please pass me the roach" [Re: NaturalHigh] #10886
01/06/11 12:55 AM
01/06/11 12:55 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 147
Vancouver, BC, Canada
Vampire Offline
Past Pacific Northwest District Governor
Vampire  Offline
Past Pacific Northwest District Governor
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 147
Vancouver, BC, Canada
Actualy it was the 2003 Vanisle that Pete crashed her on the rock. And in his defense it was really not his fault as he was not at the helm when they hit. I was there as crew on Oriole. They were very unhappy when they arrived in Nanimo.

Lime Light was one of the fastest boats in the area and Pete won a lot of races with her. But I have not had a chance pace Lime Light with the big spin to see the true effect.

But as for Vampire and the sprit things are on hold as my engineer and sail maker are trying to convince me to put an extra set of spreaders on the mast and go to a masthead A sail. The calculation is that if I do not go up to the tip then the sail will be a one angle wonder and the boat will not have the full range of angles I would need.
As well we suspect that this would leave the boat with a rating around 100-110
Seems only fare as the J92s rates 95 out here and that is basically what I would be. Only a 1000lb more.

So now I am waiting to see what phrf NW and BC have to say about the measurements.

And then for the Vanisle Tony and I have secured positions on a C&C110 with a big A sail for the race. So more to come on this. But for the future let's try and get 5 of us in this race in 2 years.
This would mean we have to do the long course in swiftsure so get ready for a big ride this year.


Vampire #18 Don
Bite Me
Re: PHRF Racers: Code 6 Mainsail or "Please pass me the roach" [Re: NaturalHigh] #10891
01/06/11 03:09 PM
01/06/11 03:09 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 381
Squamish, British Columbia
NaturalHigh Offline OP
Senior Member
NaturalHigh  Offline OP
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 381
Squamish, British Columbia
I don't think I could ever get a crew to commit to the Swiftsure Bank on a J/30. That is just punishment!

100-110? Do you really think you can sail to that? I still think our hull shape is the big limiting factor here. I just can't see the J/30 hull breaking free of it's bow wave without some really big waves. In that rating territory you are competing with boats with either a lot more waterline, or they get up and dance on the table with the slightest puff (O30s).

What about just swapping in a J/29 MH rig? Or finding another MH rig of similar dimensions? Then you can save your J/30 rig to swap in for OD events when we get them going wink

Re: PHRF Racers: Code 6 Mainsail or "Please pass me the roach" [Re: NaturalHigh] #10895
01/06/11 04:44 PM
01/06/11 04:44 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 147
Vancouver, BC, Canada
Vampire Offline
Past Pacific Northwest District Governor
Vampire  Offline
Past Pacific Northwest District Governor
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 147
Vancouver, BC, Canada
Ok not to the bank we only need to go to flatery. but almost the same distance.
And I only do this when wind and tide favor the big run.
like last year for Patos we did the short race because I did not want to drive up wind against 4 kn of current. crazy.

and yes I have looked into the J29 mast. all options are on the table.
I seem to be stalling with the project as PHRF contemplates my future rating. they hate people like me who turbo a boat.
and they drag there feet and realy penalize people for doing this.

So for now I march on.
As for 110 that is too fast for me to compeat at.

when the wind is over 12kn I have no problem sailing at a rating of 120. under 6 kn I need that rating of 144. Like you said she has a big butt. but she is fast. In 15kn on a reach you should easly jump up and past hull speed. we have had Vampire up to 14kn. that was off the wind with no kite. and up wind we had 9kn in 35kn of wind. just slightly footing off. we were leaping out of the waves. I am a bit hard on the boat but love the speed. I should also say that we riped a stantion out of the deck when a spin line went slack for a second and lasoed the stantion and yanked it stright sidways and left a 6inch hole in the deck. so maybe i should have throtteled back.


Vampire #18 Don
Bite Me
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