I'm in the process of rerigging my boat. Presently, my spin topping lift and downhaul are led back to the cockpit on the starboard side of the cabin top where they terminate in Harken cam cleats. The topper can also be cleated at the deck exit plate on the mast. Has anyone moved their pole downhaul to a swiveling cam cleat arrangement and placed it near the base of the mast? That would allow my foredeck men to adjust the pole themselves instead of calling back to my pit man.

Thoughts and suggestions would be appreciated.

Bob Rude
Mmmmm
#352

Bob,

I've mounted a pad just forward of the mast and installed a spring loaded stand-up block that has a cam cleat. This allows the mast / foredeck to control the downhaul. I also lead the line aft so it can be set the same way you do now. The connection to the spin pole bridle is made with a block on a shackle. Although the extra purchase isn't needed, it has the effect of keeping the block at the base of the mast held upright when you try and release the line from the cam cleat.

I have the setup stowed on the boat right now. Next time I'm at Rhapsody I'll take a picture so you can see.

If the twings are led forward of the shrouds, the pole downhaul is redundant. The twings provide enough downward force to keep the pole still. I do not use the down haul on a windward leeward course. Only if tight spinnaker reaches are the order of the day, do I bother to rig the downhaul.

when the wind is up, I've found twings alone are not enough. In lighter air, we don't rig the downhaul and use just the twings. I have replaced a bent ring on the mast track when the pole skied in heavy air without the downhaul.

To keep your pole from accidentally skying, make an easy-to-release knot on the downhaul line just before the line runs through a block or fairlead. Viola! No more skying! (Of course, you've got to find the right position to place the knot!) Duh!

POLE UP!!!!

we stopped leading the pole lift back when we found "certain" pit crew had a tendency to release it accidentally when foredeck crew was working on the foredeck. not making foredeckers happy... some of those certain people were those who believe that you Have to loosen the pole lift to gybe.
it must be a carry over from other boats.

Thereupon made rule only foredeck people will lift/drop pole... we added a nylon cleat a couple of feet off the deck on the starboard side of the mast to lock it. this was not a question of what is the best way ... but what way kept foredeckers from getting bopped.

downhaul still runs back old fashioned J30 way from padeye turning block in front of hatch. since we are launching/retrieving spin via hatch ... the pole run back to base of mast seems to add a bit of complexity when the hatch is open.

Yes, I am sure if the same foredeckers were on all the time, and we always made the mark with room to spare, downhaul to mast is OK, but we work on reducing complexity for the senior citizens rotating foredeck duty.

Pit and guy trimmer control the position of the pole from the cockpit.

roger, roger on that knot ... works for us ... I was able to use a clamp to straighten out the ring the one time we skyied hard ... now just keep a knot in ... which i will remember to retie tomorrow. thanks for the reminder.

Good ideas guys. Some re-rigging/pole work is on my winter list and this is a good add. When possible, pics would be great as I'm not quite visualizing the block placement/layout. Probably just not enough coffee yet this AM...
- Jeff

So Ok ... We continue to get fewer and fewer "educated" spin people so "the program" has to be really tightened up.

When you are dealing with early teens and senior citizens ... you have to simplify on top of simplify.
One of the rules we have is
same thing
same way
everytime.
we don't do a lot of upscale variations. And everyone is supposed to do things the same way. Then all the other crew has a hint as to what each other is doing. If something doesn't work ... we try to figure out how to make it simplier.

This month after seeing how my foredecker forgot some stuff over the summer, and my 13 year old crew kid was struggling to raise the pole by himself as we were short crew.

we are trying this program:

1. The pole is always first attached to mast before raising, and always dropped to the deck before detaching from mast. there is an arrow on the mast as to where the pole is supposed to be.


2. added block to base of mast ... just lashed on.
this way someone raising pole has the topping lift in left hand and can push the pole up with right hand ... which allows a safer footing on the deck. instead of pulling down they are pulling up ... which is a more stable position with boat motion.


3. the downhaul is premarked ... so there will be no need to figure out how high to raise the pole ... you just raise it till it stops. I hate it when they ask is the pole high enough.

Will see how this works out during November. Our goal is the 8 second pole rise ... everytime. Don't laugh ... you have to have a goal.

Vic - another foolproof way that J/World teaches for J/24s, also works for J/30...

1. Set the spin pole ring on the mast at the height you want before getting underway
2. Clip pole lift to the ring with the trip line on the shackle facing out so you can grab it. Lock the pole lift shackle in position with just a little bit of slack (eg 1").
3. Rig outboard end of spin pole jaws up with the guy already through the jaws.
4. Clip inboard end of pole to wherever you stow it while underway (e.g. base of shroud)
5. When ready to set, make sure there is some slack in the guy
6. Foredeck unclips inboard end of pole, and slides aft in between mast and shrouds.
7. With jaws up, pick up the pole using the bridle that pole lift gets clipped to
8. Hold the ring on the bridle against the ring on the mast with one hand, use other hand to unclip pole lift shackle, then reclip shackle to bridle ring.
9. Push pole forward with outboard end on proper side of headstay.
10 Attach inboard end of pole to ring on mast track. The pole is magically at the correct height, with nobody having to adjust anything.

the method under test

assumes that the guy is in the forward jaw, both bridles are attached and the pole hanging on the base of the shroud with the working side of the topping lift also in that jaw all at deck level. this keeps the topping lift out of the way when tacking.

the program will be to detach at the shroud, toss the working side of the topping lift to the port side of the boat, attach the aft end of the pole to the ring, push the forward end of the pole around the furling drum, grab bitter end of topping lift at mast, and raise. Your option would eliminate the concern of tangling with the furling drum ... but in 4 ft waves it seems to require a bit of balance I cannot guarantee that person will have.

If this seems to work I will video it.

Forgot to show ... use of foredeck padeye ...

two blocks ... one for pole downhaul and one for furler line.

we like to bring furling line straight back to make it a bit easier to work dock lines.

I think a much better solution is to put an eye strap at the base of the mast and then use a 2:1 purchase with a becket for the downhaul. This keeps you from having to ease/tighten the foreguy when you are adjusting the guy since the pivot point moves to the base of the mast not the deck. One less thing to do when going fast down wind.

To do this you need to get rid of the bridle and lash D rings to the center of the pole. Most carbon poles come this way.

Not really. The the foreguy at the base of the mast works as described by dbows regardless of whether you have a bridle or a center D ring on your spin pole. In either case the angle is not as effective at preventing the outboard end of the pole from rising so you might want to apply more tension with a purchase.

Seems to me the extra block at the base of the mast for the topping lift is one more piece of gear for the jib sheets to catch on during a tack (as is the block for the foreguy). Couldn't you just use the usual cam cleat near the topper exit and grasp the tail aft of the existing turning block if you prefer to pull up instead of down?

This is the system we use on the Laser 28 I race on and have been considering a switch on Natural High. It does work with a bridle though.

continuing testing Vee Jay pole raising alternatives:



we will have to continue testing this in 3-4 ft wave motion this winter.

My three objections to running downhaul to base of mast:
1. it conflicts with the open hatch when launching/dousing spin via hatch.
2. it doesn't anchor pole forward in boat motion ... crew prefers knowing that pole isn't going to swing randomly during sets and douses.
3. it makes it a bit more difficult to get around the front of the mast when the poles is up.

remembering that the Gulf is not sheltered ... we like to do things for maximum conditions, not minimum conditions.

so OK to follow up on the Vee Jay pole lift program quoted below for reference:
This weekend at the Marco Isl YC Fall Regatta ... wind ranging from 5-25, with 20 degree shifts ... but out of east so pretty flat ... 13 spin sets over two days. Don't ask how we did ... other to say great practice weekend with the teen trimmer crew showing solid improvement ... even if my starboard genny sheet is a bit shorter.

However, Granddad Randy our foredeck steady, was quite impressed with the use of the block at the base of the mast and the program for pole lift. It is simple to understand and easy to implement. took him less than a minute to adopt.

It also looks like we have acquired for the winter program -- Brian, skipper of Hornet, J30 #22, who will be a great asset as our tactician.

End of Report.

Originally Posted By: Cap'n Vic

So Ok ... We continue to get fewer and fewer "educated" spin people so "the program" has to be really tightened up.

When you are dealing with early teens and senior citizens ... you have to simplify on top of simplify.
One of the rules we have is
same thing
same way
everytime.
we don't do a lot of upscale variations. And everyone is supposed to do things the same way. Then all the other crew has a hint as to what each other is doing. If something doesn't work ... we try to figure out how to make it simplier.

This month after seeing how my foredecker forgot some stuff over the summer, and my 13 year old crew kid was struggling to raise the pole by himself as we were short crew.

we are trying this program:

1. The pole is always first attached to mast before raising, and always dropped to the deck before detaching from mast. there is an arrow on the mast as to where the pole is supposed to be.


2. added block to base of mast ... just lashed on.
this way someone raising pole has the topping lift in left hand and can push the pole up with right hand ... which allows a safer footing on the deck. instead of pulling down they are pulling up ... which is a more stable position with boat motion.


3. the downhaul is premarked ... so there will be no need to figure out how high to raise the pole ... you just raise it till it stops. I hate it when they ask is the pole high enough.

Will see how this works out during November. Our goal is the 8 second pole rise ... everytime. Don't laugh ... you have to have a goal.

Interesting. I had my pole lift on the mast on my j24. I liked it, as it was a more natural motion. The only difference is I prefer to have someone lift the pole before it is attached to the mast. It is much easier.