So OK ... one of our competitors last weekend, has started to use a Spinnaker/Genny combination. If I remember this correctly, J30 OD doesn't allow us to use this combination in J30 OD.



I talked to a racing judge subsequently and she said that if the OD allows the combination, such as on the Melges, then it would be phrf allowed; but if the OD didn't allow the combination then it would not be allowed for phrf ... the theory being that the phrf was sort of based on what the standard racing program was for the boat. Down here for example, we don't have a penalty for a longer spin pole because it is part of the OD configuration.

What do you guys think? They did move out on us during that race but I didn't realize they flew the combination on the entire downwind leg until I saw this photo taken from one of the cruising class boats.

Vic,

There is nothing in the J/30 rules that prevent this. Unless there is a specific prohibition in the sailing instructions, the following from the RRS applies:

50.1 Changing Sails

When headsails or spinnakers are being changed, a replacing sail may be fully set and trimmed before the replaced sail is lowered. However, only one mainsail and, except when changing, only one spinnaker shall be carried set at a time.

"However, only one mainsail and, except when changing, only one spinnaker shall be carried set at a time."
I think this is what i was looking for ... this doesn't seem to allow running both for the entire downwind leg.

I don't think it prevents genoa and spinnaker simultaneously. It definitely prevents two spinnakers simultaneously. OD rules only allow a 2nd spinnaker to be used if the primary spinnaker is damaged per class rule 6.2.1

6.2.1 The number of sails on board during a regatta series or race shall be four: #1, and #3 genoas , mainsail and spinnaker. A second spinnaker may be carried on board, but only used if the primary spinnaker is damaged. The #2 is optional.

obviously from the photo this is a way bigger advantage for a masthead spin boat. And as such would put into question how a J30's phrf is established in competition with a masthead rig.

Think about say a J29 fractional vs masthead with the effect of a low genny to pull wind from the bottom of the spin to the deck. This was the first time the Dehler 34 had used this combination over the last five years ... and they really ran away from us. Our phrfs are pretty close normally.

I don't think there are any rules against it; we do it sometimes. It isn't always an advantage as it can disturb flow over the kite.

Spinnaker and headsail is acceptable under J/30 Class Rules and RRS. You can also set two headsails though some PHRF Non-spin and SI's may limit this.

But, it doesn't work very well with the J/30's fractional Genny and kite combo, unlike the boat shown which has a masthead kite. I had some success leaving the #3 up downwind in breeze, though you must keep it eased and drop before gybing.

roger, roger ... that may be a reason we don't see polars on the combo? I'm thinking this comes all back to a recent program of mine to dig into VMG to waypoint.

so ok ... this is experiment 1 ... constrained as we are by roller furling. picked up .2 knot ... we think.
but sail not low enough to deck with roller cut.

This is not a J30 spin ... but random ebay acquisition .5 oz

So OK ... back to the top of this tread. I sent a note to the SWFL PHRF rating committee to also confirm that Spin/Genny is OK ... here is note back:

"Yes, that sail setup is covered in the Spinnaker classes. However, I see that Foreign Exchange has the same measurement for their "I" and "ISP" measurements on their PHRF certificate. This is incorrect for a fractional rig boat with a full hoist on the spinnaker. They may be in violation of their certificate measurements if they are going to fly the spinnaker from the masthead."

I'm thinking that if they are using the fractional point measurement for where they fly spin ... that is the problem and when corrected will lower their PHRF rating.