I'd say open up if it makes the boat more competitive in PHRF (along with other restrictions such a spinnaker cloth minimum). If however it were to lower the PHRF, then not worth the effort.

My views are well documented and have not changed but I will not engage further in this discussion. Wildcat is committed to racing one design and thus we've made the decision to invest in a one design main, along with a trailer (so we can travel to one design events), etc. For PHRF we continue to use a laminated sail. And yes, it is an expensive commitment to have two sails.

Michael, sail cloth is not at all factored into PHRF ratings unless the sail material is a violation of class rules. Some areas give a "one-design" PHRF rating for the J-30. Non compliance to one design configuration is a 3 second penalty - but not directly related to sail material. To be specific, if the class approved a non-Dacron main, the boat would then be class compliant and still be able to sail with a class PHRF rating

Russ,

My point exactly. If the Class allowed laminate, then PHRF shouldn't change.

Anything to add competitiveness to our boats in a PHRF fleet has only upside from my perspective. Highest on the agenda however is the restriction on minimum spinnaker cloth weight.

For what it's worth, in PHRF Narragansett Bay, there is no change in rating due to sail cloth, only for sail size. I asked this question for both the main and spinnaker. I bought a 1/2 oz spinnaker that is the same size as the class spinnaker. It works great in light air. In PHRF-NB area there is no reason to make the 1/2 oz spinnaker OD class legal.

I'll say from my research the price difference between a woven poly sail (aka Dacron) and a higher strength laminated fabric is marginal. The bulk of sail cost is now in labor rather than material. I understand the class rules to be preventing arms-races, but for such a slight increase of material cost we could be utilizing better sails.

Perhaps opening the ruling to allow higher tech laminates but stop short of membrane sails. Membranes tend to cost significantly more and have some of the shortest life cycles.

Just a thought.

Hi

I have to agree.....I don't class race but I do like PHRF.

I don't have a Dacron main and I don't miss out much on that....

Perhaps because I don't race one design I am the one of the last to speak out about such things. I do wish to support the position that Russ has taken....I agree with him in principle.

My non Dacron main needs replacing finally anD I will look to newer technology materials as Dacron is more suited to cruising and antiquated notions of history in my view.....

In Southern Connecticut and western L.I. Sound the J 30 has always been a great class and it continues to be so...thanks to CPYC and others,albeit it may be losing ground due to other advances in technology, meaning the J 70's ... a class that proliferates like beneficial microbes in the garden. Meanwhile a class that is losing participation might want to be more accommodating.

Perhaps for that reason the board will need to lighten up down the road....? who knows. I am a beer can racer , perhaps a mere novice.

I only weighed in because I think the debate is useful. I encourage others to chime in as I am certain there are many factors we have yet to consider.

PLEASE CONTINUE THIS DISCUSSION

Good luck

Barry Butler
DEFENDER
Fairfield CT

The last post on this thread was over 6 years ago, but I enjoyed reading it again from the beginning. Although I no longer own a J/30 (moved to a J/109), thought it appropriate to stir the pot again. Sail technology has changed over the past 6 years. High tech sails are no longer laminated. This discussion / evaluation may want to be resurrected since now there is a process using thermoset resins that don't delaminate. The acquisition costs have come down and the longevity is far superior to laminated sails (e,g, mylar / string).

Any thoughts from J/30 owners if alternative materials should be reconsidered for the main?

No Comment

does the mainsail have slugs? Price, Pix?

I think if you live in an area that has an OD fleet, and you don’t need to race in phrf or orc, Dacron is just fine. I felt you could nurse 4 seasons out of a Dacron main. That about $600 a season especially if it was a radial design that allowed for a bit more tweaking and adjustment. Not a bad ROI. At that price point, I rather buy a new Dacron sail, then say my 4 year old 3di is “looks pretty good”.

Although I love my 3di Genoa, they are nearly double the price of what was 3dl or a paneled radial Genoa. I still question why the class allowed 3di genoas to be honest, instead of requiring a paneled laminate tri-radial sail with a minimum bag weight hat would allow for extra taffeta on the back 1/3 overlapping portion of the sail