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Re: proposed changes for Spinnakers to allow for a 0.5 oz [Re: cstoddard] #16602
11/11/15 04:26 PM
11/11/15 04:26 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 392
Rockwood, MI, USA
Russ Atkinson Offline
Senior Member
Russ Atkinson  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 392
Rockwood, MI, USA
Staying with a discussion about 1 design, I'm in Carl's boat on this one.

A person could argue that increasing the allowable 1 design inventory to include a 1/2 oz spinnaker would improve the boat performance in light air. However it also would increase the cost of participation - both points made above

My position is that if all boats sail with a 3/4 oz sail they all sail with the same performance advantage/disadvantage but at no increase in cost.

To me, keeping the cost down is more important than adding to the inventory.

Also my opinion, any discussion about changing the one design rule should not be about how this rule change would help only one PHRF area

Re: proposed changes for Spinnakers to allow for a 0.5 oz [Re: cstoddard] #16603
11/11/15 05:00 PM
11/11/15 05:00 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 454
Highland Park, NJ
Steve Buzbee Offline
Senior Member
Steve Buzbee  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 454
Highland Park, NJ
I'm not sure that would work-any thoughts anyone? And I truly believe that having the 1/2 oz for one design would greatly enhance the light air racing for the fleet (and actually might make it possible to extend the racing life for both chutes as I mentioned earlier in this thread). Since the one chute per year limitation would still be in effect, there is no cost impact on ownership (each chute would likely get used about half as much, so they would be usable for a longer calendar life)-and competition would be enhanced both in PHRF and one design. I am not seeing much of a down side to this-am I missing something?


Steve Buzbee
Blue Meanie J/30 #485
Re: proposed changes for Spinnakers to allow for a 0.5 oz [Re: cstoddard] #16605
11/12/15 10:00 PM
11/12/15 10:00 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 851
New Orleans, LA, USA
David Erwin Offline
J/30 Class Co-President
David Erwin  Offline
J/30 Class Co-President
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 851
New Orleans, LA, USA


I challenge each of you to focus on the solution. The problem to solve is increase one design participation. I wonder how many sailing programs have .5 oz spinnakers to remain competitive in PHRF racing fleets. Of these sailors, how many do not race one design regatta(s) because they have a .05 oz spinnaker but not a .75 oz due to limitation of funds.

I personally think, if we have two sail options upwind, why not have two sail options downwind? We have both .5oz and .75oz spinnakers, so there is no cost impact for Team Zephyr with this rule change.

My $.02 Dave@j30.us


Re: proposed changes for Spinnakers to allow for a 0.5 oz [Re: David Erwin] #16606
11/13/15 08:47 AM
11/13/15 08:47 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 135
Summit, NJ
Michael L Offline
Senior Member
Michael L  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 135
Summit, NJ
David,

I agree with your conclusion, but think that OD participation is only part of the equation. The other is how to make the boat more competitive (and fun) in mixed fleets. Hence my support for the proposal.


Michael
Re: proposed changes for Spinnakers to allow for a 0.5 oz [Re: cstoddard] #16607
11/13/15 03:34 PM
11/13/15 03:34 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 454
Highland Park, NJ
Steve Buzbee Offline
Senior Member
Steve Buzbee  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 454
Highland Park, NJ
Within the class rules (if adopted) the only cost impact of this for anyone would be in the first year of implementation (if they choose to buy the two chutes in the same year).


Steve Buzbee
Blue Meanie J/30 #485
Re: proposed changes for Spinnakers to allow for a 0.5 oz [Re: cstoddard] #16608
11/14/15 10:30 AM
11/14/15 10:30 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6
Waterbury, CT
Carl Sherter Offline
Immediate Past President, Treasurer
Carl Sherter  Offline
Immediate Past President, Treasurer
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6
Waterbury, CT
It is obvious that we have 2 camps here with different goals. I have thought of fleet building & participation and not fun in no air & PHRF. We should poll all the dues paying members. If passed, suggest have the change take place after next years NA's allowing purchase during fall boat show discounts.


Fat City
Re: proposed changes for Spinnakers to allow for a 0.5 oz [Re: cstoddard] #16612
11/17/15 11:22 AM
11/17/15 11:22 AM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 454
Highland Park, NJ
Steve Buzbee Offline
Senior Member
Steve Buzbee  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 454
Highland Park, NJ
I actually believe the addition of the 1/2 oz also has a significant fleet building component-anything that helps the boat stay more competitive in PHRF also helps make the boat more attractive to potential buyers and may encourage current owners to stay with their boats for longer. This is more true now as the fleet ages and fewer boats are able to sail primarily in one design than it has ever been before.


Steve Buzbee
Blue Meanie J/30 #485
Re: proposed changes for Spinnakers to allow for a 0.5 oz [Re: cstoddard] #16613
11/17/15 01:17 PM
11/17/15 01:17 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 147
Vancouver, BC, Canada
Vampire Offline
Past Pacific Northwest District Governor
Vampire  Offline
Past Pacific Northwest District Governor
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 147
Vancouver, BC, Canada
Ok this has inundated my email for some time now.
Can we please put this to bed.
None of the boats in the northwest really care as we have migrated to PHRF even when doing one design class in races.
As well many boats are migrating to A sails to improve the poor down wind performance.
So for us we have already bought a 1/2 and 3/4.


Vampire #18 Don
Bite Me
Re: proposed changes for Spinnakers to allow for a 0.5 oz [Re: Vampire] #16617
11/23/15 10:50 AM
11/23/15 10:50 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 135
Summit, NJ
Michael L Offline
Senior Member
Michael L  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 135
Summit, NJ
Vampire,

Is this a Yay or a Nay to the motion? Sounds like you are already voting Yay with your actions.

Last edited by Michael L; 11/23/15 06:06 PM.

Michael
Re: proposed changes for Spinnakers to allow for a 0.5 oz [Re: cstoddard] #16618
11/23/15 11:14 AM
11/23/15 11:14 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 147
Vancouver, BC, Canada
Vampire Offline
Past Pacific Northwest District Governor
Vampire  Offline
Past Pacific Northwest District Governor
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 147
Vancouver, BC, Canada
Yes the NW are in favour of a 1/2 once spin.
although you may need to look at the new fabrics as some new light weight fabrics and light weight high modulus line give great light air performance and can be flown in high winds when its spicy out.

So if we do this i see every one going to these new fabrics. why Cary two kites when a new light weight Airx kite would replace the 1/2 and 3/4. and go to all dynema line and your good up to 30+ kn of fun.

this conversation is a generation behind.
now how does the class feel about A Sails? just kidding. i wont muddy the waters with that.


Vampire #18 Don
Bite Me
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