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Re: The Rebuilding of Majic Carpet [Re: Coastie] #17023
11/04/16 06:52 PM
11/04/16 06:52 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 839
New Orleans, LA, USA
David Erwin Offline
J/30 Class Co-President
David Erwin  Offline
J/30 Class Co-President
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 839
New Orleans, LA, USA
That is funny!

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Re: The Rebuilding of Majic Carpet [Re: Coastie] #17024
11/05/16 10:27 AM
11/05/16 10:27 AM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 218
Scappoose, OR
C
Coastie Offline OP
Senior Member
Coastie  Offline OP
Senior Member
C
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 218
Scappoose, OR
I have been having fun this week building my arm and back muscles up. Using both a 4.5" and 7" grinders to get through many coats of bottom paint and the gel coat. The large one does a great job, but I can only swing that beast for short periods of time, the smaller one is far more manageable. I have lots of pox to get through and I plan to get through all of it, then start the multiple washes and let the hull dry for most of the winter.

One person at a commercial yard I was talking to thought that leaving the hull bare for a period of time was a bad idea. Every thing that I have been reading says that letting the fiberglass dry over a long period is a good thing before sealing with epoxy. Here in the Northwest it rains a fair bit during the winter months but the boat is tarped off and I don't think the hull will be particularly wet.

I have now gotten the entire cabin sole removed. The wing area back by engine were the last bits out. No more vermiculite except for some small bits back under the engine I can't reach, but they no longer form a dam. Next is to give the hull under the sole a light grind to remove the last of the vermiculite residue. If this area turns out to be dry I will epoxy seal it and move on. Survey is Tuesday and I have cleared everything out of the boat removed the light plywood bulkheads, and all of the storage covers.

I have been eyeing the water damage inside the hull that has come from the leaking toe rail. My inclination is to pull out all the cabinetry to get better access and then get after that toe rail. I have to believe the best fix is to waste the old toe rail and then glass that joint over and replace the toe rail. I don't see how trying to just reseal the toe rail will provide much relief. We want to get the ash strips on the hull looking good and as long as there are leaks there is no chance.

I should also mention that I just brought home several Bubinga boards that will comprise the new cabin sole. Going to be seriously cool to look at and was $11 per board foot compared to $28 for teak. I think that when it is encapsulated in epoxy the life will be more than adequate and will be a visual focal point for years to come. This will be just one of a few things we plan to do to really make this interior be a little more interesting.


Dave Graf
Re: The Rebuilding of Majic Carpet [Re: Coastie] #17025
11/06/16 07:29 PM
11/06/16 07:29 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,614
Portsmouth, RI
Rhapsody #348 Online content
Past J/30 Class President
Rhapsody #348  Online Content
Past J/30 Class President
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,614
Portsmouth, RI
I doubt it is the teak toe rail leaking but the deck joint itself.

On the deck joint once the damaged area is recored/fixed, I recommend cleaning out the deck joint with a narrow blade / putty knife to get out as much of the 5200 that you can access. Clean it with acetone and blow it out with an air gun. Tape the deck joint above and below to leave a clean line where you can apply sealant.

Get some of the Boat Life Liquid Caulk Sealant. This is a one part polysufide based caulk that is available in white, clear and black. It goes in as a liquid and skins over so you can shape it over the joint using your finger and mineral spirits.

If you want to reduce future maintenance work, scrap the teak toe rails and replace them with a synthetic such as Star Board.

Re: The Rebuilding of Majic Carpet [Re: Coastie] #17027
11/07/16 07:32 AM
11/07/16 07:32 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,614
Portsmouth, RI
Rhapsody #348 Online content
Past J/30 Class President
Rhapsody #348  Online Content
Past J/30 Class President
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,614
Portsmouth, RI
ps - I forgot to mention something that I thought was obvious, but probably isn't. Remove all the toe rails before you do the deck joint sealing described above.

Re: The Rebuilding of Majic Carpet [Re: Coastie] #17029
11/10/16 01:14 AM
11/10/16 01:14 AM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 218
Scappoose, OR
C
Coastie Offline OP
Senior Member
Coastie  Offline OP
Senior Member
C
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 218
Scappoose, OR
I signed up for this.
It's true, I like older boats that are kind of needy. I was hoping the boat I recently bought might be a little less needy than it appears to be, but for a boat that has been out there, first on the right coast and then later on the left coast always getting its heart pounded out racing around the buoys it stands to reason that it now needs a little heart surgery to get it into its next life. There are parts of this boat that are totally up to date, winches, traveler, 1600 watts of amplifier for the tunes, but there is a long list of items that have been horribly ignored. The part that I and likely many other owners of similar aged boats get to deal with is saturated balsa core in the hull and decks. On my boat the biggest problem is in the hull and for the faint of heart it might be actually fatal. If you were paying someone to do this work it would never make economic sense for a boat this age. But I rarely pay anyone to do anything, so this project fits right in with the other insane projects I am always working on.

I was not unrealistic about the costs of ownership of an older boat. The purchase price on this boat was $13,000. I don't know yet if the sails are totally consumed, or if they still have some useful life in them. I do know the cost of their replacements if that is required and it likely is. I have no expectations of a free ride here. I bought this boat for the very purpose of learning the ins and outs of a fast monohull. I could have bought a newer boat with fewer issues, but I wouldn't have learned the anatomy of the boat in any detail. Nothing I plan to do to this boat will likely make it go any faster, but the things I do should make the boat go much further in time.

What I do want to do is give some others that are thinking about older boats an idea of the work and the expense involved in bringing an older boat back to its full glory might be. I will attempt to explain all of the expenditures I encounter both in dollars and effort. The expenses so far include the boat itself, the trailer, the haul out and various supplies and components. Just so you know that there is no "great deal" here, the following are some of the big ticket items so far:

Boat $13,000
Trailer $ 5,000
1st Haul out $ 650
Survey $ 600
Misc. supplies $ 300
Combined licensing
Titles, documents,
plates $ 250
This year's repair $9,000+
budget

I had planned on replacing the standing rigging and several other items, but may need to wait on that. For sure I will replace the old tired life lines and sort out some repairs to the pulpits and stanchions. I have a little war chest for this year's boat repairs and upgrades and getting the boat back into the water that nearly equals the boat purchase price. So now I get to sort out the replacement of a big bunch of soggy boat hull. Right now I am leaning towards doing the recore work from the outside of the boat because it offers the unobstructed work. I think I have some ideas on how to manage the overhead work and since all the joints I plan to make will end up being covered in new glass with epoxy resin I can get a two fer. My plan is to test this work approach from outside and if I can sort it out proceed that way, if it turns out to be impractical then a bunch of stuff will have to be removed from the interior to provide all the access needed to complete the work.

Here is a video of what I am seeing, what I'm doing now and where I am going.

I signed up for this


Dave Graf
Re: The Rebuilding of Majic Carpet [Re: Coastie] #17030
11/10/16 02:05 AM
11/10/16 02:05 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 74
Scotland
J
Jim Hoey Offline
Senior Member
Jim Hoey  Offline
Senior Member
J
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 74
Scotland
When I got Judicious The hull was sodden but the core was still good like yours and it was suggested that to drill holes in the hull at a rate of 9 per sq foot tent off the boat and use infrared heaters and dehumidifiers. which would work like your vacum after boat dried out the holes were epoxy nailed.The holes were drilled from the outside through the outer skin then a flat nose drill to clean the inner skin so that the epoxy would stick to the inner skin it worked a treat.

Re: The Rebuilding of Majic Carpet [Re: Coastie] #17031
11/10/16 09:11 AM
11/10/16 09:11 AM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 218
Scappoose, OR
C
Coastie Offline OP
Senior Member
Coastie  Offline OP
Senior Member
C
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 218
Scappoose, OR
So you used just infrared heat and the holes?

The idea of adding the vacuum is to boil off the moisture and the heat would just make the boiling happen faster. There is a lot to be said about this approach if it works reliably.


Dave Graf
Re: The Rebuilding of Majic Carpet [Re: Coastie] #17032
11/10/16 10:57 AM
11/10/16 10:57 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 50
Rochester, MN
Scott Offline
Senior Member
Scott  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 50
Rochester, MN
I had a similar issue on my starboard hull. I cut the skin off from the outside, being careful to keep the skin intact as I peeled it off. I then replaced the balsa core with foam core, and reapplied the skin. Then, faired the cuts and glassed over to seal it all up. Worked quite well.

My issue was from the back of the keel. There was a tiny crack at the back of the keel where it meets the hull. This crack went through the solid glass in the middle of the boat to the starboard side where the core was. This was the source of my leak. I'm not sure the screws by the deck are the issue on yours. I think you would see wet core down the side of the hull as well, which doesn't appear to be the case. Plus, the hull where the screws go through up there is solid. The core basically stops at the outside edge. There is then a flange of solid glass that the deck and toe rail screw into. At least, that's how it was on my boat.

Re: The Rebuilding of Majic Carpet [Re: Coastie] #17033
11/10/16 01:49 PM
11/10/16 01:49 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 74
Scotland
J
Jim Hoey Offline
Senior Member
Jim Hoey  Offline
Senior Member
J
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 74
Scotland
Just watch I was also told not to give it too much heat as this can cause the core to delaminate from the skin

Re: The Rebuilding of Majic Carpet [Re: Coastie] #17034
11/10/16 04:17 PM
11/10/16 04:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 218
Scappoose, OR
C
Coastie Offline OP
Senior Member
Coastie  Offline OP
Senior Member
C
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 218
Scappoose, OR
There is a small crack at the rear of the keel where it meets the hull, but to look at it I would think it was only in the filler. Maybe I need to seriously excavate that thing and see what is happening.

The surveyor said that simply applying the vacuum was adequate to "boil" the water at ambient temperatures and that adding some heat just helped. For sure I can see how actual hot water would not only delaminate, but likely degrade the balsa itself. This is a tempting approach, but to make it works requires a fair bit of setup and patience vs. just getting it done.

Scott, how big were each of the sections that you opened up? Meaning were you cutting open 12" x 12" or ? I was thinking that something like 6" x 36" would be manageable and allow the new foam strip to easily conform to the compound curves. I was thinking to use a 1/4" ply backer, with some attached blocks to stand the strap off and covered with HDPE and then use rachcet straps fully around the boat to compress the new structure.



Dave Graf
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