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Re: The Rebuilding of Majic Carpet [Re: Coastie] #17035
11/10/16 10:29 PM
11/10/16 10:29 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 50
Rochester, MN
Scott Offline
Senior Member
Scott  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 50
Rochester, MN
For years I thought the small crack was nothing, and kept grinding it a little and doing a little filling. Each year when the boat was hauled, there would be a little weaping of liquid, sometimes with a greenish tint. I finally tore into it last winter and did about a 2'x2' square behind the keel and reglassed it all. As I ground, you could see the crack continue into the cored area on the starboard side.

I would do sections that I knew I could easily (with the help of another person) get back into place without much hassle. I think I probably went up to about 2'x2', and maybe even a bit longer if it was a skinnier piece. The trick is to not bite off more than you can easily get back on and hold in position while you set up the braces. I used a process similar to what you describe, but without the straps. I did a lot of work where the keel hindered the use of straps. But, I would use a backer, and had lots of long strips of wood that I would use to apply pressure and hold it in position. I would do the core in one step, and after it cured, I would fit the hull piece and sand down the core where needed to make everything fit just right.

I've tried replacing the core from the inside, and it's just too difficult to get where you need.

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Re: The Rebuilding of Majic Carpet [Re: Scott] #17036
11/11/16 09:08 AM
11/11/16 09:08 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,614
Portsmouth, RI
Rhapsody #348 Online content
Past J/30 Class President
Rhapsody #348  Online Content
Past J/30 Class President
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,614
Portsmouth, RI
Originally Posted by Scott
I've tried replacing the core from the inside, and it's just too difficult to get where you need.


Unlike Scott, I found on Rhapsody it was easier to work from the inside when replacing core. I was able to work on my hands and knees, and gravity was my friend when bonding new core to the outer skin. I skipped the section under the ice box, but could have done that from underneath. I did do the center section behind the keel (and for about 12 inches forward of the trailing edge) from underneath the boat.

Check out the blog in my signature for pictures and read this thread if you haven't already.

Re: The Rebuilding of Majic Carpet [Re: Coastie] #17037
11/11/16 12:14 PM
11/11/16 12:14 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 839
New Orleans, LA, USA
David Erwin Offline
J/30 Class Co-President
David Erwin  Offline
J/30 Class Co-President
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 839
New Orleans, LA, USA
Coastie you are my #HERO Thanks for taking the time to restore Majic Carpet

Re: The Rebuilding of Majic Carpet [Re: Coastie] #17038
11/12/16 11:11 AM
11/12/16 11:11 AM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 218
Scappoose, OR
C
Coastie Offline OP
Senior Member
Coastie  Offline OP
Senior Member
C
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 218
Scappoose, OR
Bill, I have been using this site extensively to research and understand what I am getting into. There is extensive history on the rebuilding of these boats, but one thing I have come across multiple times now is that several of the important blogs that various people created some years ago are now defunct. Likely the poster stopped paying for the service or the host no longer exists. In any case the images and info are lost.

The photo albums on this site seem to be just historical in their order and there is no obvious way to sort them into the technical shots that would be helpful in these rebuild projects. I just don't have time to wander endlessly through them to see important images of technical details.

Might it be possible to create an Image Album that is just a place to put technical images? It wouldn't help recover old stuff, but would give us a place to collect new images. This album could be further divided into hull, engines, rigging etc.

In the same area, might it be possible to create a list of these rebuild blogs? The forum search tool on any of these rebuild topics always brings back several tons of various posts that you have spend an inordinate amount of time sorting through to get that golden nugget of info that you need.

I'm directing this your way since you have done an excellent job of developing much this information over the years and the info that you and many others have provided over the years could get lost if there isn't a more common repository for it.


Dave Graf
Re: The Rebuilding of Majic Carpet [Re: Coastie] #17040
11/12/16 12:13 PM
11/12/16 12:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 164
Portland, ME
JBiermann Offline
Senior Member
JBiermann  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 164
Portland, ME
Coastie,

I might put some thought into the less invasive method of dealing with the wet core. I've replaced several chunks in hull #54 and one thing I've learned is that "wet" does not mean "rotted". A lot of the core that's wet still is well adhered and not in danger of delamination. I was thinking about the prospect of drilling holes in the interior of the small dog, letting a few heaters and de-humidifiers run all winter and see what I can get out of her. Then fill the holes with epoxy in the spring before we launch. As a veteran of several coring areas, it's a process and I was told to never open up more than a 24x24 area so that would be a lot of projects to get to all that red area.

Re: The Rebuilding of Majic Carpet [Re: Coastie] #17041
11/12/16 01:58 PM
11/12/16 01:58 PM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 218
Scappoose, OR
C
Coastie Offline OP
Senior Member
Coastie  Offline OP
Senior Member
C
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 218
Scappoose, OR
What I am thinking about is the final solution. It seems to me that just drying the core, even "if" successful does not solve the underlying problem. There is a source of moisture most likely coming from the bottom center of the boat, but possibly several other places. If you don't stop and seal that the invasion of moisture from wherever it is coming, the problem will simply continue.

I think that getting the balsa out of the equation would go a long way to stopping this wet core issue. IN my opinion it is wet core issues that devalue these boats, so if you can prove you have eliminated the balsa core, you are not only fixing your boat you are improving its economic value. I agree about the amount of area to be open at any given time in a particular area of the hull, but I think you could be working a couple of different sections that are well separated. I plan on using foam core and epoxy resin and I expect that should completely stop the migration of moisture from a particular source or even from some vague direction.

I can be working on this nearly full time as I'm recently retired and expect that while not the most fun project I have ever undertaken this is manageable. We have one advantage here in our area and that is while it is wet in the winter it is usually plenty warm enough to do epoxy resin work.

I really want to get these hull issues off the work list, sooner rather than later. Hopefully by next spring I can pull the tarp off and get after the topside issues. There is also a nice work list for the interior including the new sole that I get to build, so lots of places to spread the work around.


Dave Graf
Re: The Rebuilding of Majic Carpet [Re: Coastie] #17042
11/12/16 03:50 PM
11/12/16 03:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 218
Scappoose, OR
C
Coastie Offline OP
Senior Member
Coastie  Offline OP
Senior Member
C
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 218
Scappoose, OR
Here is a look at my first round of minor surgery. I wanted to get an idea of what tools worked and the effort involved. The section(s) I removed were a total of 8" by 20" done in two strips. The outer skin was the easiest to remove by carefully and slowly applying a prying pressure advancing maybe an inch at a time. The core itself is a pain when it is well adhered to the inner skin and what I finally decided was the best approach was to use the multitool and essentially cut it away. Only half of the area I opened up was marked as wet and the other I opened up to confirm the reading. Here is the video that includes some still shots.

Minor Surgery


Dave Graf
Re: The Rebuilding of Majic Carpet [Re: Coastie] #17043
11/12/16 10:08 PM
11/12/16 10:08 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 164
Portland, ME
JBiermann Offline
Senior Member
JBiermann  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 164
Portland, ME
its a start, remember to take the time to fair back the edges before you start the new glass work. i.e. [Linked Image]

or

[Linked Image]

It can look rough and ugly but eventually you'll get to spray on that last coat... do yourself a favor and rely on a little help from your friends when you can find it.
[Linked Image]




Attached Files
IMG_2076.JPG [755.56 KBytes] - (302 downloads)
IMG_2071.JPG [822.12 KBytes] - (325 downloads)
IMG_2123.JPG [921.4 KBytes] - (326 downloads)
Last edited by JBiermann; 11/12/16 10:16 PM.
Re: The Rebuilding of Majic Carpet [Re: Coastie] #17045
11/15/16 11:48 PM
11/15/16 11:48 PM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 218
Scappoose, OR
C
Coastie Offline OP
Senior Member
Coastie  Offline OP
Senior Member
C
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 218
Scappoose, OR
Friends and information are what make this project possible. With some big hints on the how part I have started the build on a vacuum pump large enough to hopefully handle working a couple of areas at a time. A friend that deals in instruments at a local paper mill is helping with the pump build. Started some reinforcement inside the hull at the rear of the keel today. If the weather allows I plan to take a die grinder to the outside and work that area at the back of the keel where it meets the hull. So far I don't see any actual cracks, just unfilled glass fibers. I think this area was badly glassed up either originally or in a subsequent repair. Once I clean this area up a little better I think I will force some thickened epoxy into the void spaces and then add some glass layers both to seal this up and to provide some strength for the next time the keel finds something hard to kiss.


Dave Graf
Re: The Rebuilding of Majic Carpet [Re: Coastie] #17047
11/16/16 10:24 AM
11/16/16 10:24 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,614
Portsmouth, RI
Rhapsody #348 Online content
Past J/30 Class President
Rhapsody #348  Online Content
Past J/30 Class President
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,614
Portsmouth, RI
Coastie - I suspect you'll find the area directly behind the keel once you grind it out similar to what other J/30 owners have found. The laminate on Rhapsody was water saturated, cracked (probably from previous groundings) and had a rotten smelling black goo infiltrated in the glass. When you grind out that area, feather it back and lay up multiple layers of biaxial cloth to build up the strength. Don't just fill it with epoxy because it is an area of the boat subjected to a lot of stress from the keel.

Remember that the boat was constructed with two halves that were glassed together at the keel joint. Make that joint structurally sound if you find it has been compromised anywhere.

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