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Re: Pinching or Backwinding the Main [Re: Fitjarald] #17354
07/18/17 08:11 AM
07/18/17 08:11 AM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 18
Halifax
Fitjarald Offline OP
Member
Fitjarald  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 18
Halifax
Yes - we ran into the issue of constantly adjusting the downhaul for jibes, any time the guy is adjusted, etc, plus it's location means we have to disconnect it on every beat as it gets twisted around the jib sheets with the roller furling. However, I don't have any other deck hardware installed yet, so just trying to get a feel for the best methods others use, and then will make a decision once we are a bit more competent with the spinnaker.

The second set of blocks used near the stantion bases to keep the guy and sheet out of cockpit - do others jsut attach these to the rings on the stantion bases? Or would this apply too much pressure, and risk yanking the stantions out?

Re: Pinching or Backwinding the Main [Re: Fitjarald] #17355
07/18/17 08:15 AM
07/18/17 08:15 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,656
Portsmouth, RI
Rhapsody #348 Offline
Past J/30 Class President
Rhapsody #348  Offline
Past J/30 Class President
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,656
Portsmouth, RI
I used to attach the twings to stanchion bases but the location isn't optimal and some have broken the welds on the stanchion bases. Anyone who has mounted padeyes on deck near the shrouds will tell you that is by far the best solution on twing placement. It eliminates the need for the foreguy. Make sure you drill and properly epoxy isolate the padeye holes and use a backing plate or large washers inside.

Re: Pinching or Backwinding the Main [Re: Fitjarald] #17356
07/18/17 09:18 AM
07/18/17 09:18 AM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 18
Halifax
Fitjarald Offline OP
Member
Fitjarald  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 18
Halifax
Thanks! I also saw in the video in the thread you linked to previously the second set of blocks that the sheet and guy runs through after the running aft, to keep the guy and sheet from cutting diagonally across the cockpit. Would those be mounted to padeyes as well?

Re: Pinching or Backwinding the Main [Re: Fitjarald] #17357
07/18/17 09:37 AM
07/18/17 09:37 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,656
Portsmouth, RI
Rhapsody #348 Offline
Past J/30 Class President
Rhapsody #348  Offline
Past J/30 Class President
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,656
Portsmouth, RI
Those are mounted on the stanchion base - the stanchion is located about even with the companionway entrance.

Re: Pinching or Backwinding the Main [Re: Fitjarald] #17407
08/17/17 12:20 PM
08/17/17 12:20 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 381
Squamish, British Columbia
NaturalHigh Offline
Senior Member
NaturalHigh  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 381
Squamish, British Columbia
I have sailed both with downhaul at the base of the mast and forward at the middle of the foredeck. I honestly prefer the forward mounted downhaul as it gives much more stability to the pole as it creates a triangle of forces between the guy, uphaul and down haul. Yes, adjusting down haul for pole forward and back can suck, but so can constantly fighting with the pole moving back on the guy.

I agree that going for maximum point is the priority in everything except the very lightest of winds where you need to keep the boat moving. Sometimes that means the main is backwinded (we call it a speed bubble). Up at the top of #1 range we are seeing only the aft third of the main being backwinded, but we are still going close to 7 kts inside 25 degrees apparent. If you are light on crew, you will start back winding earlier as you are lowering the main to keep the heel appropriate. Start stepping down headsails if the main is starting to flog.

I agree with the trim approach of setting the headsail for maximum point and playing the main to find where the best speed is. If best speed is with main low enough that it is flogging even though it is as flat as plywood, it means it is time to reduce sail unless you like replacing windexes off the top.

Another secret weapon that doesn't get used is the reef. The J/30 is as fast as blazes with the #1 up and reef in the main. A reef is much faster to put in and shake out than a headsail peel and is especially effective where you are slightly overpowered at one end of the course. It is also really effective where you think you might be over powered with the kite up in high winds. Try it with a reef and the kite up, the stability improves and you might even be faster because you are fighting less with the rudder.

Another tip to save your stanchions: It is the only yacht I have been on that the spinnaker sheets like to be run inside the lifelines because it is so wide. It is better that the guy presses on the lifeline outwards when the pole is back vs the alternative where the force is exponentially higher when the pole is forward near the forestay.

Re: Pinching or Backwinding the Main [Re: Fitjarald] #17433
09/03/17 09:47 AM
09/03/17 09:47 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 203
Oxford, MI
Conundrum Offline
Senior Member
Conundrum  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 203
Oxford, MI
On Conundrum, we have T Track with a Tweaker car located just aft of the beam. We run the tweaker from there to the shroud base then along the cabin to a cam cleat on the cabin side. Keeps the line flat and low. We always run spins INSIDE for reasons that Natural High gave. We no longer load the lifelines or stanchions with this setup..
Our Spinnaker pole lives in a sock on the Boom. When stowed the foretriangle is completely clear with the downhaul attached to the temporary spot at the base of the mast with a 5000# caribiner and swivel. When the pole is deployed we move this caribiner to the center deck padeye where it is most efficient. The uphaul and downhaul are always connected to the pole whether stowed or deployed.
Sail Fast, Sail Safe
BTW, Conundrum is for sale.


Don King
Re: Pinching or Backwinding the Main [Re: Fitjarald] #17436
09/03/17 06:34 PM
09/03/17 06:34 PM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 218
Scappoose, OR
C
Coastie Offline
Senior Member
Coastie  Offline
Senior Member
C
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 218
Scappoose, OR
Guys this part of the adventure is way beyond where I am now, but I really want to understand these deck setups better. While the written descriptions are very good, some images/video would really help. Don before you sell your boat please take some time and carefully detail for the rest of us how you have organized everything, kind of a posterity thing. Hopefully you will keep participating in this site when you move to the next boat. I for one really appreciate all the effort that you and BIll and many others have put into these boats and the boaters that like these boats.

I will even help with the effort. If you shoot the images and mail them to me, I will gladly resize them and do whatever is needed to get them up here. Then you can add descriptions and comments. This is an open offer, so anyone that has imagery that we should all be seeing, feel free to PM me or email at dmgraf55@centrurytel.net.

I really suspect that MaJic Carpet has many of the better deck features, but all I can see these days is balsa, more balsa, then epoxy...............


Dave Graf
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