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Re: Main Sail Material [Re: Russ Atkinson] #15478
02/21/14 10:17 PM
02/21/14 10:17 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 128
Summit, NJ
Michael L Offline
Senior Member
Michael L  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 128
Summit, NJ
I'd say open up if it makes the boat more competitive in PHRF (along with other restrictions such a spinnaker cloth minimum). If however it were to lower the PHRF, then not worth the effort.


Michael
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Re: Main Sail Material [Re: Russ Atkinson] #15481
02/24/14 01:39 PM
02/24/14 01:39 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 383
Rockwood, MI, USA
Russ Atkinson Offline OP
Senior Member
Russ Atkinson  Offline OP
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 383
Rockwood, MI, USA
My views are well documented and have not changed but I will not engage further in this discussion. Wildcat is committed to racing one design and thus we've made the decision to invest in a one design main, along with a trailer (so we can travel to one design events), etc. For PHRF we continue to use a laminated sail. And yes, it is an expensive commitment to have two sails.

Michael, sail cloth is not at all factored into PHRF ratings unless the sail material is a violation of class rules. Some areas give a "one-design" PHRF rating for the J-30. Non compliance to one design configuration is a 3 second penalty - but not directly related to sail material. To be specific, if the class approved a non-Dacron main, the boat would then be class compliant and still be able to sail with a class PHRF rating

Re: Main Sail Material [Re: Russ Atkinson] #15486
02/24/14 08:01 PM
02/24/14 08:01 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 128
Summit, NJ
Michael L Offline
Senior Member
Michael L  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 128
Summit, NJ
Russ,

My point exactly. If the Class allowed laminate, then PHRF shouldn't change.

Anything to add competitiveness to our boats in a PHRF fleet has only upside from my perspective. Highest on the agenda however is the restriction on minimum spinnaker cloth weight.


Michael
Re: Main Sail Material [Re: Russ Atkinson] #15488
02/24/14 08:50 PM
02/24/14 08:50 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,606
Portsmouth, RI
Rhapsody #348 Offline
Past J/30 Class President
Rhapsody #348  Offline
Past J/30 Class President
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,606
Portsmouth, RI
For what it's worth, in PHRF Narragansett Bay, there is no change in rating due to sail cloth, only for sail size. I asked this question for both the main and spinnaker. I bought a 1/2 oz spinnaker that is the same size as the class spinnaker. It works great in light air. In PHRF-NB area there is no reason to make the 1/2 oz spinnaker OD class legal.

Re: Main Sail Material [Re: Russ Atkinson] #15495
02/26/14 09:21 AM
02/26/14 09:21 AM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 26
Maine
J
Jangles13 Offline
Senior Member
Jangles13  Offline
Senior Member
J
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 26
Maine
I'll say from my research the price difference between a woven poly sail (aka Dacron) and a higher strength laminated fabric is marginal. The bulk of sail cost is now in labor rather than material. I understand the class rules to be preventing arms-races, but for such a slight increase of material cost we could be utilizing better sails.

Perhaps opening the ruling to allow higher tech laminates but stop short of membrane sails. Membranes tend to cost significantly more and have some of the shortest life cycles.

Just a thought.

Re: Dacron Main [Re: Russ Atkinson] #15613
04/30/14 10:56 AM
04/30/14 10:56 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 10
Fairfield,CT
D
Defender Offline
Member
Defender  Offline
Member
D
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 10
Fairfield,CT
Hi

I have to agree.....I don't class race but I do like PHRF.

I don't have a Dacron main and I don't miss out much on that....

Perhaps because I don't race one design I am the one of the last to speak out about such things. I do wish to support the position that Russ has taken....I agree with him in principle.

My non Dacron main needs replacing finally anD I will look to newer technology materials as Dacron is more suited to cruising and antiquated notions of history in my view.....

In Southern Connecticut and western L.I. Sound the J 30 has always been a great class and it continues to be so...thanks to CPYC and others,albeit it may be losing ground due to other advances in technology, meaning the J 70's ... a class that proliferates like beneficial microbes in the garden. Meanwhile a class that is losing participation might want to be more accommodating.

Perhaps for that reason the board will need to lighten up down the road....? who knows. I am a beer can racer , perhaps a mere novice.

I only weighed in because I think the debate is useful. I encourage others to chime in as I am certain there are many factors we have yet to consider.

PLEASE CONTINUE THIS DISCUSSION

Good luck

Barry Butler
DEFENDER
Fairfield CT


Re: Dacron Main [Re: Russ Atkinson] #18608
09/25/20 07:57 PM
09/25/20 07:57 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,606
Portsmouth, RI
Rhapsody #348 Offline
Past J/30 Class President
Rhapsody #348  Offline
Past J/30 Class President
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,606
Portsmouth, RI
The last post on this thread was over 6 years ago, but I enjoyed reading it again from the beginning. Although I no longer own a J/30 (moved to a J/109), thought it appropriate to stir the pot again. Sail technology has changed over the past 6 years. High tech sails are no longer laminated. This discussion / evaluation may want to be resurrected since now there is a process using thermoset resins that don't delaminate. The acquisition costs have come down and the longevity is far superior to laminated sails (e,g, mylar / string).

Any thoughts from J/30 owners if alternative materials should be reconsidered for the main?

Re: Dacron Main [Re: Russ Atkinson] #18609
09/28/20 04:05 PM
09/28/20 04:05 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 383
Rockwood, MI, USA
Russ Atkinson Offline OP
Senior Member
Russ Atkinson  Offline OP
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 383
Rockwood, MI, USA
No Comment smile

Re: Dacron Main [Re: Russ Atkinson] #18622
10/18/20 09:57 AM
10/18/20 09:57 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 21
Chicago, IL
D
deathtrap30 Offline
Senior Member
deathtrap30  Offline
Senior Member
D
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 21
Chicago, IL
does the mainsail have slugs? Price, Pix?

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