instead of leading the spinnaker pole topping lift aft to the cockpit, has anyone relocated the cam cleat to the base of the mast?

I havent done this myself but I've seen it done on J24s and Thunderbirds. The idea is to put all that stuff at the hands of the foredeck crew so he/she doesnt have to rely on the pit crew to get their job done. Usually, these boats have a cleat on the mast for the spinnaker halyard also so the foredeck can raise the chute too. Another solution some people like is to move the foreguy/downhaul lead on the deck to the mast so it doesn't have to be released on a gybe. If you do this you pretty much have to have twings too 'cause you lose some leverage on the pole.

While your at it, try the trigger pole ends. That really makes things slick for the foredeck.

On the Chesapeake Bay, a lot of folks have two cleats for the topping lift. The "normal" one remains on the cabin top for the pit crew to work and another one is added on the mast just below the exit point. With the cleat on the mast, the bowman can cleat off the topping lift, and then release it him/herself when performing the douse. At that time, the pit person is usually active stuffing the chute down the companionway.

Do most boats on the Chesapeake (or elsewhere) douse into the companionway? We've been dousing down the forward hatch. Our theory has been that the J-30 has such a small cockpit, the last thing we need back there is a spinnaker to suck into a jib car. Not to mention the pit person is making sure the halyard runs clean which would be difficult to do with a handfull of spinnaker in your way. How does it work on your boat?

Ed Austin
Chinook

Most people, I believe, do a conventional leeward take-down into the companionway. There are a few trendsetters who are doing hatch take-downs. These folks are also doing windward take-downs, so that all the lines remain connected and ready for the next hoist. In conventional leeward douse, the pit-person's last action before the take-down is to clear the halyard so that it can run freely. With this done, the halyard isn't usually an issue. As the spinnaker comes down, the pit-person pulls it from the mast-person and stuffs it below. After we've rounded the mark, she goes below and packs the chute for the next downwind leg.

[This message has been edited by jmruzzi (edited 04-26-2000).]

For a typical windward/leeward course with port roundings, a weather takedown is ideal. As Joe stated, all the lines end up on the side you need them for the next hoist. Another good reason is that the foredeck crew can remove the pole early while the mast crew holds the spinnaker guy out to help fly the chute without a pole (the jib is up by now). This way the foredeck can stow the pole prior to the mark rounding and help with the takedown. The mast crew pulls the foot of the chute around to weather. Then the halyard is released. You can either drop down the hatch or into the companionway. This method does require a little more experienced/practiced crew. The nice thing is you get your crew on the rail for the weather leg sooner.

[This message has been edited by Alan Grim (edited 04-26-2000).]

Here in Chicago, there was one boat that would do a foreward hatch takedown. We on Planxty douse into a bag in the companionway, almost always on the port side of the boat. We've never had a problem with the chute getting caught in the jib track.

Much like the suggestion above about the topping lift cleat on the mast, we have one for the spin halyard just below the mast exit. Works great for both hoists and douses. On hoists, the mast person gets the chute up and cleated and the pit person catches up when they can. On douses, just before the chute is ready to come down, we release from the cockpit stopper (after checking to be sure it's in the mast cleat) and pull the halyard forward to the mast base. Then the mast person can feed out the halyard as the pit person collects the chute without any conflict.

Just wondering, those of you who douse through the front hatch and leave lines connected. Don't you have any waves and/or spray where you sail?

Kent - those are some serious waves if you get water on the foredeck going downwind. I like the idea of a bag to stuff the chute into hanging in the companionway. Is it the same turtle you use on the rail to launch the chute? I've seen those used on J24s. The pit person just chases the tapes in the bag and leaves the lines hooked up. Then they just throw the sail out the side of the boat and hoist the halyard and guy at the same time. Works nicely for a small spinnaker like that on the J24. Do you do the same or do you take the bag foreward to the rail for sets?

We launch from a bag hung in the pulpit, and douse to leeward into the companionway, and it can get real ugly. Most of our racing is around the cans, so we can have a stbd rounding at one mark and port rounding at the next - that complicates the issue a bit. Launching from the pulpit gives us a lot of flexibility.

We have a hot J/29 fleet here - they race windward/leeward, and the majority (maybe all of them?) launch & douse in the forward hatch.

Alan - Maybe either my question or my understanding of what is being done wasn't clear. I assumed that with the lines always attached to the chute that it wasn't possible to dog down the forward hatch. If that's the case, then on the upwind (not downwind) leg you must occasionally get water over the deck and consequently down the hatch. My crew's experience has never let them believe me when I tell them the J is a "dry boat". If the hatch can be dogged down with either lines sticking through into the boat or chute corners hanging out through the hatch, isn't it hard on the lines and/or the chute? Or am I just missing the whole point and all lines are disconnected?

Ok, Kent. I see where you are coming from. My understanding was that the lines are detached from the sail by the sewer crew and passed back up to be re-rigged by the foredeck crew right after takedown. Just like a companionway douse only in a different place. The sail is then flaked and bagged as usual.

We takedown through the companionway so I may have misconceived how its done. I sailed on a J41 where we doused down the hatch but I wasn't part of the pointy end crew. My recollection is that the lines were disconnected and passed up. But I was busy with mainsail trim so I wasn't watching.

Those of you that douse down the forward hatch, please chime in and tell us how its really done.

We've been dousing down the forward hatch for the last few years due to my experience in bigger boats and J-29's. We douse the spinnaker under the jib (leeward) or to windward as the situation requires and stuff it down the hatch with all lines connected and close the hatch. When the boat is settled out upwind, the pit person goes below, disconnects the gear from the sail, connects it together and tosses it out the hatch. Then they re-pack. Foredeck clips the gear back to the lifelines and clears the halyard leaving us ready for the next hoist. It works pretty well especially if you can open the hatch past 90 degrees. My orignal hatch did not, but I put in a new one that does (for different reasons). I've sailed on a 29 that removed the locking brackets so the hatch would open fully.

Ed Austin
Chinook

We also have a cleat on the mast for the spin halyard, and never take it back to the halyard stopper in the cockpit.

The compainway bag we use on Planxty is just a square spinnaker bag North happens to be using lately. It's magically the perfect size! I'm sure that wasn't really planned

Re-pack the chute? Detach sheets? No need for either! What comes down must go up (well, most of the time at least). We never have to send someone below to re-pack. Stuff the chute into the bag, leave everything attached, and set right from the companionway. The crew stays up on the rail (where they belong).

The reason for detaching the chute is that we sail mostly PHRF and use more than one chute. So, what comes down, may not go back up.

Just an update on the topping lift cleat on the mast idea. In the current issue of Latitude 38 (a Left Coast freebie sailing mag), there was a suggestion to install the Harken cleat "upside down" on the mast above the topping lift exit. That way the foredeck/mast person can control the lift while putting up and/or taking down the pole. Then when the cockpit crew is ready to control the pole, all they have to do is pull on the topping lift, it pops out of the cleat, and they have control in the cockpit. We tried it this Spring when rigging the boat and it works great. Sometimes you just have to slap yourself upside the head and say "why didn't I think of that?" The only caution is that Latitude 38 recommends that your exit plate be the kind with rollers above and below the line so that when you pull up it doesn't chafe.

A note to those of you launching from the pulpit. Our bow lights are mounted on the top rail of the bow pulpit (I've seen other J30s were this is not the case). In certain situations, the chute can hang up on the bow light. A few months ago we launched for a broad reach in about 15kt winds, as soon as everything was up, I looked under the boom to see how the chute looked and there was a big square hole ripped out of it. Of all the times we've launched downwind thats never been a problem. Make sure whoever is on the halyard is watching the chute come out of the bag, especially on a broad reach.