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Re: Dewatering Aft Bilge - Need Advice #5954
04/13/06 12:52 PM
04/13/06 12:52 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,586
Portsmouth, RI
Rhapsody #348 Offline OP
Past J/30 Class President
Rhapsody #348  Offline OP
Past J/30 Class President
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,586
Portsmouth, RI
Quote
Originally posted by 6degrees:
....
As for the 'Other Bilge', there is no drain other than whatever water can weep around the drain hose that is buried in the vermiculite under the floor. Because of its position, it doesn't drain and is therefore a prime spot for nasty moisture to accumulate, especially if your 20+ year old bilge hose leaks. ...



Rich,

Mark & I talked about taking a long drill bit (maybe ~ 3/8" diameter) and drilling a hole from the lower edge of forward bilge next to the drain hose, aft into the vermiculite. Both Mark & I have experienced water "magically" appearing in that little flat section of the forward bilge. Sponge it up, and it returns in about 10 minutes. If the water is trying to weep past the bilge hose, couldn't we just give it an easier path to flow forward? I realize this would be a temporary fix until the real problem of drainage in that area gets solved. Any opinions on this?

Tnx,
Bill

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Re: Dewatering Aft Bilge - Need Advice #5955
04/13/06 01:27 PM
04/13/06 01:27 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 26
Burlington, VT USA
6degrees Offline
Senior Member
6degrees  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 26
Burlington, VT USA
Quote
Originally posted by whk:
Rich,

Mark & I talked about taking a long drill bit (maybe ~ 3/8" diameter) and drilling a hole from the lower edge of forward bilge next to the drain hose, aft into the vermiculite. Both Mark & I have experienced water "magically" appearing in that little flat section of the forward bilge. Sponge it up, and it returns in about 10 minutes. If the water is trying to weep past the bilge hose, couldn't we just give it an easier path to flow forward? I realize this would be a temporary fix until the real problem of drainage in that area gets solved. Any opinions on this?

Tnx,
Bill


Seems like it could help move this water forward as it sloshes around. If your boats are built like my boat, it still won't be able to drain uphill. I'd also be cautious about damaging the hull laminate or the pump and ice box hoses.

It is possible that if you kept your main bilge dry and installed a new bilge hose (so pumping out wouldn't leak water into the Other Bilge, this area might stay pretty darn dry. I don't know how much water is entering from the aft half of the deck, so this may or may not be helpful.

Rich


Rich Miller
Brass Monkey
#294
Re: Dewatering Aft Bilge - Need Advice #5956
04/13/06 01:46 PM
04/13/06 01:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 52
Somerset, MA
mjr Offline
Southern New England District Governor
mjr  Offline
Southern New England District Governor
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 52
Somerset, MA
To further Bills comments, I came up with a possible plan to allow for better drainage/pumpout of the second bilge. Let me know what you think as it came to me at 2:00 am this morning. Drill the hole Bill suggested far enough to reach the area that should be the low point in the second bilge. Obvious risk in drilling through one of the existing hoses, or worse. The hole diameter should be big enough to accept a fuel hose for a typical dingy outboard motor. By using the bulb pump that is on almost every dingy fuel line, the second bilge can be pumped as dry as the hose position allows. If you seal the area with silicone where the hose penetrates the vermiculite, you don't refill the second bilge from the first. You could even pull the bulb off the hose, but leave the bulb's first check valve with the hose, then attach another hose to it that ends in the bottom of the first bilge. This way if there is a large quantity of water, or whatever, that gets into the second bilge, it may reach far enough into the hose to empty into the first bilge, and even start a siphon that sucks the second bilge dry(er). The retained check valve eliminates the risk of, again, backfilling the second bilge through the hose.

OK, does this sound like a 2:00 am save the world scenario, or what?

Any thoughts? (Or was this too painful?)
Mark R.


Mark Rotsky
Nemesis 435
Re: Dewatering Aft Bilge - Need Advice #5957
04/14/06 09:06 AM
04/14/06 09:06 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 649
Marblehead, MA
dbows Offline
Senior Member
dbows  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 649
Marblehead, MA
I have the same scenerio with the rear flat part of the bilge filling with a bit of water. Mine is/was coming from a crack in the large bilge hose right at where it goes under the floor. I am having to do the famed project of running a smaller hose through this larger one. I suspect this will fix my leak.

Also I have a smaller diameter hose that runs out of back of the bilge right on the centerline. Does this drain the "second bilge" or is it the icebox drain?


David
#397


David Bows
Mallorca - Hull# 397
~~~~~_/)~_/)~~~~_/)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~
Re: Dewatering Aft Bilge - Need Advice #5958
04/14/06 11:27 AM
04/14/06 11:27 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 26
Burlington, VT USA
6degrees Offline
Senior Member
6degrees  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 26
Burlington, VT USA
Quote
Originally posted by dbows:
I have the same scenerio with the rear flat part of the bilge filling with a bit of water. Mine is/was coming from a crack in the large bilge hose right at where it goes under the floor. I am having to do the famed project of running a smaller hose through this larger one. I suspect this will fix my leak.

Also I have a smaller diameter hose that runs out of back of the bilge right on the centerline. Does this drain the "second bilge" or is it the icebox drain?


David
#397


Consider running a full sized bilge hose under the settee and into the bilge. This leaking pump hose seems like it could be the primary source of water back there, though on my boat, it had a new smaller hose installed, so the water that was stuck in there was coming from elsewhere.

As for the other hose, its the icebox drain. You could check this by pouring a little water into the icebox and seeing where it comes out.


Rich Miller
Brass Monkey
#294
Re: Dewatering Aft Bilge - Need Advice #5959
04/14/06 12:02 PM
04/14/06 12:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 649
Marblehead, MA
dbows Offline
Senior Member
dbows  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 649
Marblehead, MA
Quote
Originally posted by 6degrees:
Consider running a full sized bilge hose under the settee and into the bilge. This leaking pump hose seems like it could be the primary source of water back there, though on my boat, it had a new smaller hose installed, so the water that was stuck in there was coming from elsewhere.

As for the other hose, its the icebox drain. You could check this by pouring a little water into the icebox and seeing where it comes out.



I looked into doing this but there is no way to get a hose into the settee. There is a small passage but is max 1/2 inch high and it aligns directly into the water tank. How have others done this?

David


David Bows
Mallorca - Hull# 397
~~~~~_/)~_/)~~~~_/)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~
Re: Dewatering Aft Bilge - Need Advice #5960
04/14/06 07:20 PM
04/14/06 07:20 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,586
Portsmouth, RI
Rhapsody #348 Offline OP
Past J/30 Class President
Rhapsody #348  Offline OP
Past J/30 Class President
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,586
Portsmouth, RI
Quote
Originally posted by dbows:
I have the same scenerio with the rear flat part of the bilge filling with a bit of water. Mine is/was coming from a crack in the large bilge hose right at where it goes under the floor. I am having to do the famed project of running a smaller hose through this larger one. I suspect this will fix my leak. ...


David
#397


David (or others who've done the smaller hose trick),

What diameter hose are you using, and does this go all the way aft to the Whale Gusher? Not sure if it is better to pull the smaller diameter hose through then entire length, or just splice a section with adapters through the "hidden bilge" area.

Bill
#348

Re: Dewatering Aft Bilge - Need Advice #5961
04/15/06 09:21 AM
04/15/06 09:21 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 649
Marblehead, MA
dbows Offline
Senior Member
dbows  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 649
Marblehead, MA
Quote
Originally posted by whk:
David (or others who've done the smaller hose trick),

What diameter hose are you using, and does this go all the way aft to the Whale Gusher? Not sure if it is better to pull the smaller diameter hose through then entire length, or just splice a section with adapters through the "hidden bilge" area.

Bill
#348


Bill,

I have been thinking about this and I am not sure which is best. I am of the mindset that I want a single hose to reduce points of failure however my Gusher pump will not handle the smaller hose so I will have a "step-up" anyway. I am not sure what the difference would be to that vs. grafting in a smaller run just through the old hose except the failure point would be more accessible if it was next the pump rather than down in the cabin.

I think the new hose is 1 1/8th. I will measure it while I am on the boat today since this is on my to-do list for the weekend.

David
#397


David Bows
Mallorca - Hull# 397
~~~~~_/)~_/)~~~~_/)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~
Re: Dewatering Aft Bilge - Need Advice #5962
04/16/06 07:42 AM
04/16/06 07:42 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 26
Burlington, VT USA
6degrees Offline
Senior Member
6degrees  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 26
Burlington, VT USA
Quote
Originally posted by dbows:

I looked into doing this but there is no way to get a hose into the settee. There is a small passage but is max 1/2 inch high and it aligns directly into the water tank. How have others done this?

David


Under the settee, there are two cutouts toward the bilge, with gaps under the floor to allow drainage. These channels are formed by blobs of vermiculite between the floor and the hull, so we're not talking about a consistent size passage here. It sounds like there just isn't enough room to jam a hose in. On my boat, it looked like with a little chipping, I would have been able to squeeze a hose through on the port side. That said, having never bothered to try it (and subsequently opting to rip out the floor), I can't say if it ever would have worked. Sounds like the classic 'small hose through the old hose' trick is your best option.

Rich


Rich Miller
Brass Monkey
#294
Re: Dewatering Aft Bilge - Need Advice #5963
04/17/06 02:03 PM
04/17/06 02:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 52
Somerset, MA
mjr Offline
Southern New England District Governor
mjr  Offline
Southern New England District Governor
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 52
Somerset, MA
Well, I went drilling for gold this weekend. Got a extra long 1/2" drilll bit and went at it just starboard and below the ice box drain hose. Went in about 5 or 6 inches aiming for the centerline and got 95% dry sawdust. The other 5% was just moist enough to pack into one sipe of the bit, but fell out easilly when touched. That's about as far as I dare go. Plugged the hole with a rubber cork so as not to start a problem that didn't exist. I may try to drill one more much smaller hole below the pump hose just to see if anything comes out there. If dry, I'll seal it up and focus my attention elsewhere.
Mark R.


Mark Rotsky
Nemesis 435
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