Discussions on everything about the J/30 Sailboat!
With your one stop source
The J/30 Marketplace
Join or Renew
Class Membership
Search

August
M T W T F S S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Today's Birthdays
JasonVerrett
Newest Members
mattjenPDX71, loic, Cousineddy, Captain Rick, Boat Boxer
915 Registered Users
Crew Manager Boat Websites

Boat Website subscriptions with
Crew Scheduling & Notifications

Created by former J/30 Rhapsody owner

West Marine Affiliate Link

West Marine - The worlds largest boating supply company!
J/30 Class Affiliate Program

J/30 Social Network
Popular Topics(Views)
841,466 Dacron Main
127,227 Ananda's Refit
Forum Statistics
Forums28
Topics3,730
Posts18,282
Members915
Most Online223
Dec 17th, 2019
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rules Change Research from 18 Sept 2008 BOG Meeting #6661
12/17/08 11:40 PM
12/17/08 11:40 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,602
Portsmouth, RI
Rhapsody #348 Online content OP
Past J/30 Class President
Rhapsody #348  Online Content OP
Past J/30 Class President
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,602
Portsmouth, RI
As a follow-on to the rules discussions documented in the 18 September 2008 Board of Governors meeting minutes item #7, Charlie Stoddard provided proposed wording for updating rules per below. Please provide specific comments by posting in this thread and refer to the paragraph number on your reply.

7. Additional Potential Rule Changes: During the measurement for the 2008 North Americans, there were a number of items discovered in the rules wording that were ambiguous. Charlie Stoddard will propose wording for the areas that are ambiguous. Specifically the items include:

7a. Measurement of main sail headboard width and whether it includes luff tape

Existing Rules
5.12.2.2 The length of the leech, measured in a straight line from the head to the clew, shall not exceed 12.395 m.

Proposed Revised Wording
5.12.2.2 The length of the leech, measured in a straight line from the head to the clew, shall not exceed 12.395 m. The straight line measurement shall be taken from the apex of the headboard at the luff edge, including the boltrope, to the apex of the foot at the clew, including boltrope. Refer to figures 5.12.2.2a, 5.12.2.2b, and 5.12.2.2c.
Fig 5.12.2.2a
[Linked Image]

Fig 5.12.2.2b
[Linked Image]

Fig 5.12.2.2c
[Linked Image]


Existing Rules
5.12.2.3 The width of the sail from the midpoint of the leach to the nearest point on the luff, including the bolt rope, shall not exceed 2621 mm.

Proposed Revised Wording
5.12.2.3 The width of the sail from the midpoint of the leach to the nearest point on the luff, including the bolt rope, shall not exceed 2621 mm. The midpoint shall be determined by folding the head point to the clew point and equally tensioning the two halves so formed. The measurement shall be taken with the sail smoothed without pulling or stretching the sailcloth on the bias.

Existing Rules
5.12.2.4 The width of the headboard measured at right angles to the mast shall not exceed 158 mm.

Proposed Revised Wording
5.12.2.4 The width of the headboard measured at right angles to the mast including the bolt rope shall not exceed 165 mm. Refer to figure 5.12.2.4a.

Figure 5.12.2.4a
[Linked Image]


7b. Review required safety equipment and refer to higher authority such as USCG requirements rather than discreet list of equipment that may be inconsistent with higher authority.

Existing Rules
6.4 Safety Gear and Equipment. In addition to safety equipment required by Coast Guard and local regulations, the following equipment shall be carried onboard for one design racing.
  • Permanently installed navigation lights in working order
  • Fixed non-electric compass
  • Fog horn
  • Two water resistant flashlights
  • Two fire extinguishers of type and capacity required by local and Coast Guard regulations
  • PFD for each member of the crew
  • One throw-able lifesaving device within reach of the helmsman
  • Equipment capable of disconnecting or severing the standing rigging
  • First Aid Kit and manual
  • Five soft wood plugs of size to fit each below waterline through hull fitting
  • One permanently fitted manual bilge pump operable from the cockpit with all hatches, lockers and companionways closed. If handle is removable, it shall be tethered to prevent loss
  • Two rigid buckets with lanyards having a minimum capacity of two gallons each
  • One anchor and rode
  • Radar reflector (with minimum diameter of 8-10")
  • Depth sounder (or lead line)
  • Radio receiver capable of receiving weather bulletins
  • Distress signals meeting USCG requirements
  • Heaving line (minimum 50' length) within reach of the helmsman

For local and national events the notice of race and sailing instructions may require additional safety equipment.

Proposed Revised Wording
6.4 Safety Gear and Equipment. As required by Coast Guard and local regulations or any additional equipment as required by the local organizing authority

7c. Reword use of second spinnaker while racing as intended; Only single spinnaker used in a race unless damaged; notify RC once this occurs

Existing Rules
6.2.1 The number of sails on board during a regatta series or race shall be four: #1, and #3 genoas , mainsail and spinnaker. A second spinnaker may be carried on board, but only used if the primary spinnaker is damaged. The #2 is optional.

Proposed Revised Wording
6.2.1 The number of sails on board during a regatta series or race shall be four: #1, and #3 genoas , mainsail and spinnaker. A second spinnaker may be carried on board, but only used in a given race if the primary spinnaker is damaged. The #2 is optional.


7d. Look at requirements at making reef points in main sail optional, as nobody uses them for racing.

Existing Rules
5.12.2.6 One reef shall be included at least 1675 mm above the tack at the luff and perpendicular to the mast. At least two intermediate grommets must be built into the sail on each reef. Additional reefs above the mandatory reef are permitted.

Proposed Revised Wording
5.12.2.6 Reef points are permitted, but not required.

7e. Investigate elimination of quarter berth cushions for racing similar to V-berth cushions. This needs to be thoroughly discussed on the forum.

Existing Rules
Under paragraph 5.3
Standard interior equipment includes (but is not limited to) the following:
  • cushions for all berths and settees (V-Berth cushions may be removed for racing)


Proposed Revised Wording
Standard interior equipment includes (but is not limited to) the following:
  • cushions for all berths and settees (V-Berth and quarter berth cushions may be removed for racing)


[This message has been edited by Rhapsody #348 (edited 12-17-2008).]

Re: Rules Change Research from 18 Sept 2008 BOG Meeting #6662
12/18/08 12:01 AM
12/18/08 12:01 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 137
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Taras Offline
Senior Member
Taras  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 137
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
in rule 6.2.1
what do you mean when #2 is optional?
is it to say that 4 sails on board which can be the #1, #2, main, spin (the 2 replaces the 3 as an option)

or can you have 5 sails inlculding the #2

taras
_)

Re: Rules Change Research from 18 Sept 2008 BOG Meeting #6663
12/18/08 12:12 AM
12/18/08 12:12 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,602
Portsmouth, RI
Rhapsody #348 Online content OP
Past J/30 Class President
Rhapsody #348  Online Content OP
Past J/30 Class President
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,602
Portsmouth, RI
Taras - The requirement to carry the #2 genoa was eliminated in the 2005 rules changes. The intention of rule 6.2.1 is that you are required to have onboard the mainsail, #1, #3 and spinnaker. The #2 is optional and can be carried in addition to the 4 required sails. Additionally, you can carry a spare spinnaker that is only supposed to be used if the primary spinnaker is damaged.

Re: Rules Change Research from 18 Sept 2008 BOG Meeting #6664
12/20/08 06:13 PM
12/20/08 06:13 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 148
Annapolis, MD US
LChristy Offline
J/30 Class Measurer
LChristy  Offline
J/30 Class Measurer
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 148
Annapolis, MD US
Taras -

Bill's comment on your question is correct. However, while this section is open to discussion and comment on the rules by all memebers, please keep in mind that offical interpretation of the rules can only be provided by the National Class Measurer.

Larry Christy
Class Measurer

Re: Rules Change Research from 18 Sept 2008 BOG Meeting #6665
12/20/08 06:27 PM
12/20/08 06:27 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 148
Annapolis, MD US
LChristy Offline
J/30 Class Measurer
LChristy  Offline
J/30 Class Measurer
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 148
Annapolis, MD US
To further clarify the question concerning the number of sails to be carried on board. You must have at least 4 sails on board while raciing, one of each of the following; a main, #1, #3, and spinnaker. You are not permitted to have more than 6 sails, with #2 and a backup spinnaker as the optional sails.

Larry Christy
Class Measurer

Re: Rules Change Research from 18 Sept 2008 BOG Meeting #6666
12/21/08 11:45 AM
12/21/08 11:45 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,602
Portsmouth, RI
Rhapsody #348 Online content OP
Past J/30 Class President
Rhapsody #348  Online Content OP
Past J/30 Class President
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,602
Portsmouth, RI
Quote

7b. Review required safety equipment and refer to higher authority such as USCG requirements rather than discreet list of equipment that may be inconsistent with higher authority.

Proposed Revised Wording
6.4 Safety Gear and Equipment. As required by Coast Guard and local regulations or any additional equipment as required by the local organizing authority


I think the proposed wording relaxes the requirements too much if it is strictly by USCG regulations. There are some items on the list that reflect one design construction. I also am a stickler for safety and would recommend we not take things off the list, but rather make them optional so it forces people to make a conscious decision on safety matters. I've annotated the list below with recommendations. The order is as listed in the existing rules, but these could be grouped by USCG Required, One-Design Required, and Suggested Optional Equipment.

The USCG requirements may be found in a summary list at USCG Boating Safety Website .

Proposed Revised Wording
6.4 Safety Gear and Equipment. In addition to safety equipment required by Coast Guard and local regulations, the following equipment shall be carried onboard for one design racing. Optional suggested safety equipment is also included.

  • Permanently installed navigation lights in working order One Design Required
  • Fixed non-electric compass One Design Required
  • Fog horn USCG Requirement
  • Two water resistant flashlights Suggested but optional
  • Two fire extinguishers of type and capacity required by local and Coast Guard regulations USCG Requirement
  • PFD for each member of the crew USCG Requirement
  • One throw-able lifesaving device within reach of the helmsman USCG Requirement
  • Equipment capable of disconnecting or severing the standing rigging Suggested but optional
  • First Aid Kit and manual Suggested but optional
  • Five soft wood plugs of size to fit each below waterline through hull fitting Suggested but optional
  • One permanently fitted manual bilge pump operable from the cockpit with all hatches, lockers and companionways closed. If handle is removable, it shall be tethered to prevent loss One Design Required
  • Two rigid buckets with lanyards having a minimum capacity of two gallons each Suggested but optional
  • One anchor and rode One Design Required
  • Radar reflector (with minimum diameter of 8-10") Suggested but optional
  • Depth sounder (or lead line) One Design Required
  • Radio receiver capable of receiving weather bulletins One Design Required
  • Distress signals meeting USCG requirements USCG Requirements
  • Heaving line (minimum 50' length) within reach of the helmsman Suggested but optional

Re: Rules Change Research from 18 Sept 2008 BOG Meeting #6667
12/22/08 04:48 PM
12/22/08 04:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 669
Maryland, USA
Bob Rutsch Offline
Governor at Large
Bob Rutsch  Offline
Governor at Large
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 669
Maryland, USA
It may be unwieldy to discuss all this in one thread but in any case...

2nd Spin proposal, what does this change?

On measurement, I think we should be careful adhere to the definitions in ISAF's Equipment Rules of Sailing: http://www.sailing.org/2011.php

Re: Rules Change Research from 18 Sept 2008 BOG Meeting #6668
12/22/08 06:48 PM
12/22/08 06:48 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,602
Portsmouth, RI
Rhapsody #348 Online content OP
Past J/30 Class President
Rhapsody #348  Online Content OP
Past J/30 Class President
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,602
Portsmouth, RI
Quote
Originally posted by Bob Rutsch:
It may be unwieldy to discuss all this in one thread but in any case...

2nd Spin proposal, what does this change?

On measurement, I think we should be careful adhere to the definitions in ISAF's Equipment Rules of Sailing: http://www.sailing.org/2011.php


BOG Minutes Paragraph 7c (2nd spinnaker)
The 2nd spin proposal change discussed at the BOG meeting was intended to make it so that rule 6.2.3 did not preclude someone from using a replacement spinnaker during a race, prior to being able to request permission. It is expected that the replacement spinnaker carried onboard would already be measured in. The italic text below is what presents a potential problem that precludes using the 2nd spinnaker during a race if the 1st one is damaged.

6.2.3 Alteration or substitution of sails during a regatta series is not permitted. A sail damaged beyond repair may be replaced with the approval of the host fleet measurer or event organizer, as appropriate.

BOG Minutes Paragraph 7a (sail measurement)
Bob - your suggestions on ISAF reference are right on. ISAF para G.4.1 & G.4.2 contain the same definition of Clew Point and Head Points show in the proposed figures. What is missing is a definition to measure the headboard width, so we should probably include a class definition. Class rules para 4.5 already provide reference to the ISAF measurement instructions.

[This message has been edited by Rhapsody #348 (edited 12-22-2008).]


Moderated by  LChristy 

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 19 guests, and 4 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Photos
Truckin'
Endeavour (246) Sailing in Prince Edward Island
First cruise
Fotos Regatas 2017 Tomine Colombia
Regata Armada Tomine Colombia Julio 2017
Recent Posts
Wet bulkhead
by dlabrosse. 08/04/20 12:32 PM
Shroud Tension Tuning
by usa1136. 08/02/20 11:01 AM
#484 "Conundrum" for sale
by nathankt79. 07/29/20 07:31 PM
For Sale or Parts #207 Koeshtkah
by Koesh. 07/27/20 02:22 PM
Simple cruising douse
by Rajesh Verma. 07/20/20 07:05 AM
One of the best things about sailing offshore...
by Rajesh Verma. 07/20/20 07:04 AM
WTB: Lower Shrouds (Replacement)
by Rhapsody #348. 07/19/20 12:17 PM
3 way/Y-Valve handle
by Rhapsody #348. 07/10/20 03:53 PM
New North Main - too long?
by Georges. 07/01/20 02:27 PM
How to re-bed hand rails?
by Russ Atkinson. 07/01/20 10:36 AM
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1