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Comment Here - Draft Potential Rule Changes for 2009 #6865
02/04/09 02:24 PM
02/04/09 02:24 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,581
Portsmouth, RI
Rhapsody #348 Offline OP
Past J/30 Class President
Rhapsody #348  Offline OP
Past J/30 Class President
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,581
Portsmouth, RI
Based on the 18 Sept 2008 Board of Governors meeting with subsequent Rules Change Research from 18 Sept 2008 BOG Meeting and feedback, the following draft changes are being considered for 2009 J/30 Class Rules changes to the 2008 J/30 Class Rules with the proposed effective date being 1 May 2009. These will require approval with a vote by the J/30 Board of Governors at a meeting to be scheduled prior to becoming effective.

Summary of Proposed Rule Changes & Interpretations with Proposed Effective Date 1 May 2009
  • Makes the Quarter-Berth Cushions optional so they may be removed for racing (5.3)
  • Clarifies measurement of headboard width to remove ambiguities due to the bolt rope or mast track slug. The original dimension of 158mm has been increased to 165mm and specifically adds the extended dimension of the bolt rope or mast track slug. Other measurement ambiguities involving the clew and its associated bolt rope are covered in the ISAF Equipment Rules of Sailing referred in these rules, so are not repeated. (5.12.2.4)
  • Makes mainsail reef points optional (5.12.2.6)
  • Reduces minimum spinnaker cloth weight from .75 oz nominal (.9 oz actual) to 0.5 oz nominal (.72 oz actual). The weight reduction changes from Airex 650 to Airex 500 as an approved spinnaker cloth. There is no intention with this change to allow one design racing with a choice of a 0.75 oz or 0.50 oz spinnaker for a regatta. Whatever sail is measured in must be used for the entire regatta, subject to exceptions by a damaged spinnaker per 6.2.1 (5.12.6.1)
  • Rewords use of second spinnaker while racing as intended; Only a single spinnaker is used in a race unless damaged; the RC must be notified if this occurs (6.2.1)
  • Updates the list of required safety equipment referring to Coast Guard regulations, and augments the list with one design required equipment and suggested optional safety equipment. The list has been reordered and grouped as Coast Guard Required, One Design Required, and Optional Suggested. (6.4)
Detailed changes by paragraph - Changed wording annotated as italicized bold text

Paragraph 5.3 rules interpretation - existing
Standard interior equipment includes (but is not limited to) the following:
  • cushions for all berths and settees (V-Berth cushions may be removed for racing)

Paragraph 5.3 rules interpretation - proposed
Standard interior equipment includes (but is not limited to) the following:
  • cushions for all berths and settees (V-Berth and Quarter-Berth cushions may be removed for racing)
______________________________________________________________________________
Paragraph 5.12.2.4 rules - existing
5.12.2.4 The width of the headboard measured at right angles to the mast shall not exceed 158 mm.

Paragraph 5.12.2.4 rules - proposed
5.12.2.4 The width of the headboard measured at right angles to the mast including the mast track slug or bolt rope shall not exceed 165 mm. Refer to Figure 5.12.2.4a below
[Linked Image]
Figure 5.12.2.4a - Headboard Measurment
______________________________________________________________________________
Paragraph 5.12.2.6 rules - existing
5.12.2.6 One reef shall be included at least 1675 mm above the tack at the luff and perpendicular to the mast. At least two intermediate grommets must be built into the sail on each reef. Additional reefs above the mandatory reef are permitted.

Paragraph 5.12.2.6 rules - proposed
5.12.2.6 Reef points are permitted, but not required. The optional reef point suggested location is at least 1675 mm above the tack at the luff and perpendicular to the mast. At least two intermediate grommets built into the sail are suggested on each reef. Additional reefs above the suggested optional reef are permitted.
______________________________________________________________________________
Paragraph 5.12.6.1 rules - existing
5.12.6.1 Minimum cloth weight is 40 grams or 0.75 oz. nominal and 0.9 oz. actual weight. Spinnakers must be made of nylon. Airex 650 is one of several approved spinnaker cloths that meet this requirement.

Paragraph 5.12.6.1 rules - proposed
5.12.6.1 Minimum cloth weight is 30 grams or 0.50 oz. nominal and 0.72 oz. actual weight. Spinnakers must be made of nylon. Airex 500 is one of several approved spinnaker cloths that meet this requirement.
______________________________________________________________________________
Paragraph 6.2.1 rules - existing
6.2.1 The number of sails on board during a regatta series or race shall be four: #1, and #3 genoas , mainsail and spinnaker. A second spinnaker may be carried on board, but only used if the primary spinnaker is damaged. The #2 is optional.

Paragraph 6.2.1 rules - proposed
6.2.1 The number of sails on board during a regatta series or race shall be four: #1, and #3 genoas , mainsail and spinnaker. The #2 genoa is optional. A second spinnaker may be carried on board, but only used in a given race if the primary spinnaker is damaged. In the event the second spinnaker is used during a regatta, the Race Committee shall be notified as soon as practicable.
______________________________________________________________________________
Paragraph 6.4 rules - existing
6.4 Safety Gear and Equipment. In addition to safety equipment required by Coast Guard and local regulations, the following equipment shall be carried onboard for one design racing.
  • Permanently installed navigation lights in working order
  • Fixed non-electric compass
  • Fog horn
  • Two water resistant flashlights
  • Two fire extinguishers of type and capacity required by local and Coast Guard regulations
  • PFD for each member of the crew
  • One throw-able lifesaving device within reach of the helmsman
  • Equipment capable of disconnecting or severing the standing rigging
  • First Aid Kit and manual
  • Five soft wood plugs of size to fit each below waterline through hull fitting
  • One permanently fitted manual bilge pump operable from the cockpit with all hatches, lockers and companionways closed. If handle is removable, it shall be tethered to prevent loss
  • Two rigid buckets with lanyards having a minimum capacity of two gallons each
  • One anchor and rode
  • Radar reflector (with minimum diameter of 8-10")
  • Depth sounder (or lead line)
  • Radio receiver capable of receiving weather bulletins
  • Distress signals meeting USCG requirements
  • Heaving line (minimum 50' length) within reach of the helmsman
For local and national events the notice of race and sailing instructions may require additional safety equipment.

Paragraph 6.4 rules - proposed
6.4 Safety Gear and Equipment. In addition to safety equipment required by Coast Guard and local regulations, the following equipment shall be carried onboard for one design racing. Optional suggested safety equipment is also included.

Coast Guard Required
  • Fog horn
  • Two fire extinguishers of type and capacity required by local and Coast Guard regulations
  • PFD for each member of the crew
  • One throw-able lifesaving device within reach of the helmsman
  • Distress signals meeting USCG requirements
  • Permanently installed navigation lights in working order
One Design Required
  • Fixed non-electric compass
  • One anchor and rode
  • One permanently fitted manual bilge pump operable from the cockpit with all hatches, lockers and companionways closed. If handle is removable, it shall be tethered to prevent loss
  • Depth sounder (or lead line)
  • Radio receiver capable of receiving weather bulletins
Optional Suggested Equipment
  • Equipment capable of disconnecting or severing the standing rigging
  • First Aid Kit and manual
  • Five soft wood plugs of size to fit each below waterline through hull fitting
  • Two water resistant flashlights
  • Two rigid buckets with lanyards having a minimum capacity of two gallons each
  • Radar reflector (with minimum diameter of 8-10")
  • Heaving line (minimum 50' length) within reach of the helmsman
For local and national events the notice of race and sailing instructions may require additional safety equipment.

Re: Draft Potential Rule Changes for 2009 [Re: Rhapsody #348] #6872
02/05/09 10:28 AM
02/05/09 10:28 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 114
Richmod, VA
Phil Offline
Senior Member
Phil  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 114
Richmod, VA
Why are we now allowing quarter berth cushions to be removed as well as the v-berth cushions?




Re: Draft Potential Rule Changes for 2009 [Re: Phil] #6873
02/05/09 11:01 AM
02/05/09 11:01 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,581
Portsmouth, RI
Rhapsody #348 Offline OP
Past J/30 Class President
Rhapsody #348  Offline OP
Past J/30 Class President
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,581
Portsmouth, RI
The discussion at the board of governors meeting was the same reason as the v-berth cushions the year before. People who cruise their boats and also race complained that the quarter-berth cushions get trashed when there is rain and wet sails are stuffed below. Example - spinnaker douse in the rain through the companionway puts lots of water on the cushions. This is similar to the rationale used when the rules change was made last year for V-berth cushions. Stuffing the wet jib in the v-berth got the cushions wet.

The consensus at the time was that this was a no-cost change that really did not change the material condition for racing the boat, and helped accommodate the desires of people in the class.

Re: Draft Potential Rule Changes for 2009 [Re: Rhapsody #348] #6875
02/05/09 12:11 PM
02/05/09 12:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 52
Somerset, MA
mjr Offline
Southern New England District Governor
mjr  Offline
Southern New England District Governor
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 52
Somerset, MA
So I'm a little confused. Is the Optional Equipment really optional, or must it all be carried? The language seems to be conflicting.


Mark Rotsky
Nemesis 435
Clarifying optional safety equipment [Re: mjr] #6876
02/05/09 01:34 PM
02/05/09 01:34 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,581
Portsmouth, RI
Rhapsody #348 Offline OP
Past J/30 Class President
Rhapsody #348  Offline OP
Past J/30 Class President
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,581
Portsmouth, RI
I didn't understand Mark's comment until we spoke with each other. Now I understand and see how the proposed wording could be confusing.

So what was written as this:
Paragraph 6.4 rules - proposed
6.4 Safety Gear and Equipment. In addition to safety equipment required by Coast Guard and local regulations, the following equipment shall be carried onboard for one design racing. Optional suggested safety equipment is also included.

Would be better written as this:
Paragraph 6.4 rules - proposed
6.4 Safety Gear and Equipment. In addition to safety equipment required by Coast Guard and local regulations, the following equipment shall be carried onboard for one design racing. Optional safety equipment listed is suggested, but not required.

Re: Draft Potential Rule Changes for 2009 [Re: Rhapsody #348] #6888
02/08/09 10:04 AM
02/08/09 10:04 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 186
Barrington, RI
cstoddard Offline
Senior Member
cstoddard  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 186
Barrington, RI
The proposed wording as stated is incorrect it should read as follows

Paragraph 6.2.1 rules - proposed
6.2.1 The number of sails on board during a regatta series or race shall be four: #1, and #3 genoas , mainsail and spinnaker. The #2 genoa is optional. A second spinnaker may be carried on board, but only used in a given race if the primary spinnaker is damaged. In the event the second spinnaker is used during a race, the Race Committee shall be notified as soon as practicable.

This change would allow for the use of both spinnakers in a regatta ie if one had a 1/2 oz and 3/4 oz chute they could use the 1/2 oz on a day when the wind was under 10 knots Then if a front came thru and it blew 25 they would be able to use the 3/4 oz

From a class rules point of view it makes no sense to allow the 1/2 chute if we do not make this change If you are racing PHRF you can have a 1/2 oz chute

Charlie Stoddard
fleet 13 measurer


Charlie Stoddard
Falcon #229
Re: Draft Potential Rule Changes for 2009 [Re: ] #6890
02/08/09 11:00 AM
02/08/09 11:00 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 91
Salem, MA USA
Luke Buxton Offline
Past Northern New England District Governor
Luke Buxton  Offline
Past Northern New England District Governor
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 91
Salem, MA USA
I agree with Mr Stoddard, There is no Point in allowing a 1/2 oz chute in class racing. The rule already allows for airex 660 (not sure if this weight is correct). I think that is a great all around chute.
Luke Buxton
Evelyn


Luke Buxton
Evelyn Hull #179
Lighter Spinnaker - Draft Potential Rule Change for 2009 [Re: Luke Buxton] #6891
02/08/09 12:16 PM
02/08/09 12:16 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,581
Portsmouth, RI
Rhapsody #348 Offline OP
Past J/30 Class President
Rhapsody #348  Offline OP
Past J/30 Class President
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,581
Portsmouth, RI
I understand the wording that Charlie Stoddard included in his post above. I want to make sure people understand the potential impact on this.

Currently, a person who races one design only has the choice of a single spinnaker per the class rules. That was the intention of the original proposed wording, but allowing flexibility to use a lighter weight spinnaker.

The wording that Charlie Stoddard uses allows the use of two different types of spinnakers in a regatta such as the J/30 NAs. Thus some may feel that in order to be competitive they must have a 0.5oz and a 0.75oz spinnaker.

Personally, I would spend the money to do this, but I don't know what the feeling is by other class members, and would not want to impose a change that creates a potential financial problem for others.

I think that everyone needs to weigh in with their opinion on this change, as it is the only change proposed that has potential cost implications. The applicable class rules are para 5.12.6.1 and para 6.2.1 .

Re: Lighter Spinnaker - Draft Potential Rule Change for 2009 [Re: Rhapsody #348] #6892
02/08/09 03:10 PM
02/08/09 03:10 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 48
Watchung, NJ
B Johansson Offline
Senior Member
B Johansson  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 48
Watchung, NJ
In my opinion there is no reason to change the cloth weight for OD racing - 3/4 oz is equally good or bad for all (only the sailmakers will gain).
For boats sailing PHRF it is always an option to use a 1/2 oz and most likely the rating penalty coming with it - don't kid yourselves thinking the J/30 rating will stay the same just because we changed the class rules.
If it's decided to allow 1/2 oz there should be no restrictions - we should be allowed to use 2 spinnakers for any event (spinn #2 should be optional as Genoa #2).
Bengt Johansson - "Fuzzy Wuzzy"

Re: Draft Potential Rule Changes for 2009 [Re: Rhapsody #348] #6900
02/10/09 06:57 PM
02/10/09 06:57 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 19
Marion, MA USA
Bill Saltonstall Offline
Member
Bill Saltonstall  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 19
Marion, MA USA
Just a few comments on the proposed rule changes: One of the best features of the design is that the boat is both a good cruiser and a fun racer. I use it both ways, and I change back and forth from one mode to the other frequently. I would like to minimize the trips up and down the dock to change modes. So -

For Rule 5.3: My preference is to keep the cushions onboard all the time.

For Rule 5.12.2.4: I like the simplicity of the old rule. You ought to be able to add slugs to an existing mainsail without recutting the luff. The slugs don't help with performance but are a valuable convenience when cruising and pleasure sailing - especially when single-handing. Best to forget this change.

For Rule5.12.2.6: the grommets are never used - especially if you have lazy jacks - but the reef is a valuable feature for sailing in a breeze - especially if you lack seven folks on the rail. The requirement should be kept.

For Rule 5.12.6.1: The present rule is a practical requirement that should be retained for one design racing.

For Rule 6.2.1: Keep the existing.

For Rule 6.4: Why change the old rule?

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