I think the issue of increased cost of ownership by introducing a 1/2 oz chute is a bit of a red herring. First of all, many changes in our OD rules over the years have had significant cost implications-carbon pole, multi part mainsheets, high tech halyards, self tacking traveler assemblies and aramid headsails come to mind-but offered no improvement in the OD performance of the fleet. These changes were allowed to enhance general sailing performance and (I believe) to enhance the competitiveness of the boat in PHRF fleets-which in turn gives an extra boost to resale value. The 1/2 oz chute would have much the same effect.

Second of all (as I believe I have said before in other threads) the cost impact could be made a non-issue by limiting the number of new sails purchased per boat to four per season. Owners could then prioritize sails most in need of replacement, without fear that they could be priced out of being fully competitive . The addition of the 1/2 oz would lengthen the lifespan of the 3/4, making a biannual replacement for each a reasonable option without sacrificing performance.

Four sails per season?

Hello owners,
This is my first post on the site and my question is regarding the size limitations of the #3.

It appears the current rule changes on the slate are in the spirit of keeping costs to a minimum for the owners hence the overall disapproval with the spin cloth weight change. I do agree with keeping the current .75 weight while using a .5 spin would be great in the light stuff and PHRF I feel we can get by with a .75 if wind minimums are observed.

What I would like to throw out there is changing the rules regarding the limitations on the #3. Now that carrying a #2 is not mandatory it makes sense (at least to me but I maybe wrong) to change the rules so that we can use a full hoist/ max area #3. I feel the change will make for a sail that is much more versatile, that can reasonably bridge the gap from 1 to 3, nearly eliminate the need for a #2 and help preserve our #1’s.

I have witnessed in past OD events most competitors taking their #1 way past its limits and ragging mains because the rules do not allow for a #3 with enough juice (myself included). Considering that high-tech materials have been recently allowed a larger three should have more range than a smaller Dacron 3 (which I am guessing the #3 rule was written for or sized around the #2). I personally would like to have #3 I can use in reasonable conditions I feel the cost justify the means.

Just an observation what are your thoughts?

J/30 #470

Four sails per season sounds expensive.

The reason I suggest a limit of four per season is that is fewer than the current rules allow (5-one each main, #1, #2, #3, chute)-and some boats at the NA's definitely purchase at least three a year now (main, #1 and chute). I agree four sails a year is a lot of money-I suspect most boats that like having a fresh inventory without going broke would buy 1/2 and 3/4 oz chutes on alternate years. I know that I currently rotate my inventory-new main every other year, new #1 every year if possible, new chute every other year (not sure if this will be possible this year-fingers are crossed!). Alternately, the class could restrict spinnaker purchases to one per season, effectively forcing a rotating purchase schedule.

The point would be to discourage an escalation of the "arms race" among boats that currently go with regular replacement of inventory-while providing a greater variety of sail selection and enhanced performance.

The full hoist three was explored recently and rejected I believe-although I agree with your logic Tom. I think the primary complaint was that such a change would compel many to buy a new three immediately, when most try to keep the same #3 working for several seasons given the strength of the sail.

It would be interesting to know how many boats at NA's last year purchased 2 or more sails in 2008 - Steve I think you are close to the top in the "arms race".
Fuzzy Wuzzy had a new spinnaker - that was it.
For us 4 -5 sails/year is too much money - but I'm not suggesting to change the rules it should be up to each skipper to decide how much to spend on sails.

Not to put too fine a point on it-my only new sail at the NA's was my #1-but the main was new earlier in the season. My sails get quite a bit of use during the season, so I try to keep them on a reasonable replacement schedule. I also try to stagger my purchases so I don't have my entire inventory losing shape at the same time (and so I don't go broke!). Besides Bengt, I have to do something to compensate for my 400 pounds of extra boat weight!

I know that at some previous regattas, some boats measured in quite a few crispy sails-I don't think I've ever been on top of the "arms race".

Rhapsody bought a Main in 2008 and replaced a 20 year old blade - that was it. The other sails were 2 & 3 years old. If I sell some older sails to defray the cost, I'm buying a new #1 this year.

Thanks for the info

I am relatively new to the class and I was surprised of the limitations applied to the #3. But let me see if I have this right. The class agrees/addressed that the #3 should be larger but the old #3 would not be competitive if the class correctly sized #3. So instead of correctly sizing the #3 we will need to carry a #2 (but don actually have to carry a #2) and a #3 but in reality we will flog our #1’s? Sounds like cutting off your nose despite your face.

We have oversized #1’s for obvious reasons do you know what the reasoning is to a smaller than normal #3?

My sail maker believes that the current rule configuration makes the rule specified #3 useful mostly to comply with J/30 one design events (to small) and not to bother replacing the #3 I have. You can imagine my surprise when a sail maker suggests against buying a sail I can still see him shaking his head.

Tom

I believe the 105 class limits the arms race by limiting sail purchases to one a year with a few exceptions. Tom

Oops - that was me who posted as J/30 - I forgot to log out after doing some forum admin tasks.

Anyway - I'm very happy with the size of the #3 as is, particularly since I bought a carbon fiber blade last year to replace a 20+ year old dacron sail. The boat points great and moves well when the wind is up - verified by comparing boat speed and heading during multiple J/30 OD races last year. When the wind is up, I don't want more sail area and the #3 drives the boat just fine.

The question becomes, when is it right to switch to the #1 again. What I've seen for the most part is people keep up the #1 and ride it out. I see no advantage for a larger #3. I don't have a #2, but folks who do indicated it's a great sail for them in other posts on this forum. It's just got a real narrow range where it is effective.