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Re: Draft Potential Rule Changes for 2009 [Re: Rhapsody #348] #6903
02/12/09 09:28 AM
02/12/09 09:28 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 186
Barrington, RI
cstoddard Offline
Senior Member
cstoddard  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 186
Barrington, RI
With regard to the cushions The reason for making them optional is not to lighten the boat but to preserve them from water etc. If you are doing a day race ie the N/A's on a hard rain day they will get wet etc. a new set of cushions for the boat is about 3 grand I would rather spend it on sails rather than on cushions so anything I can do to increase their life is good.

The head board issue is one that was brought up by a sailmaker in that the current wording is not clear The proposed change is to clarify it so that measurement issues do not come up at the N/A's The only effect it may have is if you order a new sail w/ a bolt rope and then add slugs later you will fall out of the measurement spec unless that is addressed when the sail is cut.

Charlie


Charlie Stoddard
Falcon #229
Interpretation of Headboard Measurement [Re: ] #6906
02/12/09 11:00 AM
02/12/09 11:00 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,668
Portsmouth, RI
Rhapsody #348 Offline OP
Past J/30 Class President
Rhapsody #348  Offline OP
Past J/30 Class President
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,668
Portsmouth, RI
After reading the headboard discussion, I'm wondering if there is a literal interpretation that makes the existing rules ok as is. The rule as written specifically calls out the headboard and says nothing about the sail. Maybe that's the way it was intended!

Paragraph 5.12.2.4 rules - existing
5.12.2.4 The width of the headboard measured at right angles to the mast shall not exceed 158 mm.

The interpretation being the measurement is strictly for the headboard itself and not the sail cloth, luff tape or slugs. I don't think people can "game the system" by having more sail cloth at the top with a headboard that is 158mm max.

What if the following rule interpretation was added:
Paragraph 5.12.2.4 rules - proposed
5.12.2.4 The width of the headboard measured at right angles to the mast shall not exceed 158 mm.
______________________________________________
_______________________________________________
It is intended that the dimension at the head of the sail measured perpendicular to the mast be generally controlled by the maximum specified size of the headboard insert. This measurement excludes variability due to any extension provided by luff tape, track slugs or minor additions of sail cloth around the perimeter of the headboard for finishing.
_______________________________________________
_______________________________________________

Re: Draft Potential Rule Changes for 2009 [Re: ] #6907
02/12/09 01:40 PM
02/12/09 01:40 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 19
Marion, MA USA
Bill Saltonstall Offline
Member
Bill Saltonstall  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 19
Marion, MA USA
I understand where you are coming from on the cushion issue. I can simply remove them for NAs.

As for the headboard change, I would guess that many mainsails with slugs were purchased used and the slugs were added. That's a nice option that I think we should retain. So I think I like Bill's clarification, which should mean that no recutting is required when slugs are added.

Re: Draft Potential Rule Changes for 2009 [Re: Bill Saltonstall] #6938
02/19/09 11:09 AM
02/19/09 11:09 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 103
Stratford, CT USA
John McArthur Offline
Past President, Past LIS District Governor
John McArthur  Offline
Past President, Past LIS District Governor
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 103
Stratford, CT USA
Rule 5.12.6.1
I strongly disagree with the proposal to reduce the weight of the sail cloth for the class spinnaker. Changing from 40 to 30 gram cloth will require evey One Design J30 owner to purchase a new spinnaker to stay competitive. Basically making our 40 gram shoots obsolete!
1. The cost of 30 gram cloth is slightly more expensive that the 40 gram.
2. The 30 gram cloth is hard to work with and will increase the cost.
3. I believe the 30 gram cloth would still work in 20 knot of air but continued use would surely shorten it's life.
John McArthur

Last edited by John McArthur; 02/19/09 11:17 AM.
Re: Draft Potential Rule Changes for 2009 [Re: John McArthur] #6949
02/22/09 05:25 PM
02/22/09 05:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1
CT, USA
Trevor Roach Offline
Forum Newbie
Trevor Roach  Offline
Forum Newbie
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1
CT, USA
As for Rule 5.12.6.1
I disagree with it whole heartly, these sort of changes are what have killed other classes in the past. As John said the cost of a new chute will be increased, we will all need to buy a a 30 gram chute to stay competitive and also, the 30 gram cloth is far more fragile not only over the wind range but from a sail handling point of view.

My two cents.

Trevor Roach
#436

Re: Draft Potential Rule Changes for 2009 [Re: Trevor Roach] #6950
02/23/09 10:11 AM
02/23/09 10:11 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 493
Chicago, Il. USA
D. Bartley Offline
Governor at Large
D. Bartley  Offline
Governor at Large
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 493
Chicago, Il. USA
My .02 on 5.12.6.1: any change that effects the cost of racing a J/30 should be done at the time of the nationals. You can plan what sails you'll purchase for the next season and (hopefully) get a reasonable fall discount.



Dennis Bartley
Planxty, s/n 23994
hull 205
Re: Draft Potential Rule Changes for 2009 [Re: D. Bartley] #6951
02/23/09 01:42 PM
02/23/09 01:42 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 649
Marblehead, MA
dbows Offline
Senior Member
dbows  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 649
Marblehead, MA
As for Rule 5.12.6.1 I think if it will help you with PHRF then you can just by a 30gram chute and take the penalty - but to introduce this into the OD class is not needed. The PHRF classes will notice and will adjust or rating anyway so there will be no benefit from it being part of the OD rules. Or am I missing something?


David Bows
Mallorca - Hull# 397
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Re: Draft Potential Rule Changes for 2009 [Re: dbows] #6954
02/23/09 05:06 PM
02/23/09 05:06 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 457
Highland Park, NJ
Steve Buzbee Offline
Senior Member
Steve Buzbee  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 457
Highland Park, NJ
In my experience, PHRF hasn't readjusted when our class has made minor tweaks in allowed equipment recently (i.e. carbon pole, aramid headsails..). Have others seen a rating adjustment for the loosened restriction on sailcloth and pole material?

I don't see the point in allowing the 1/2 oz but not allowing both to be used at OD events. We don't require that everyone race with the same headsail during a given race-if we have a choice of chutes as part of a tactical decision, why restrict? Additionally, this would seem to be a burdensome restriction if the half were selected and winds kicked way up during a race-just as we can change the headsail down to a 3, I would think it wise to have the choice/option to change the chute up to the 3/4.

I will say that I carried a half oz racing phrf some years ago (before I figured out that the boat had to be in full one design config for the rating we had)-it made a significant performance difference in light conditions, making light air races both more competitive and more fun to sail (fewer moments of "droopy chute" syndrome, deeper angles and faster downwind legs). Light air racing (such as we often have in NJ, LIS and Annapolis) would be more enjoyable with the extra sail selection.

I would only favor this rule change if the restriction on sail selection was removed.


Steve Buzbee
Blue Meanie J/30 #485
Re: Draft Potential Rule Changes for 2009 [Re: Steve Buzbee] #6956
02/23/09 10:00 PM
02/23/09 10:00 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 649
Marblehead, MA
dbows Offline
Senior Member
dbows  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 649
Marblehead, MA
Originally Posted by Steve Buzbee
We don't require that everyone race with the same headsail during a given race-if we have a choice of chutes as part of a tactical decision, why restrict?


This is true - we allow the choice for up wind sails.


David Bows
Mallorca - Hull# 397
~~~~~_/)~_/)~~~~_/)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~
Re: Draft Potential Rule Changes for 2009 [Re: dbows] #6957
02/23/09 10:43 PM
02/23/09 10:43 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,668
Portsmouth, RI
Rhapsody #348 Offline OP
Past J/30 Class President
Rhapsody #348  Offline OP
Past J/30 Class President
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,668
Portsmouth, RI
Originally Posted by dbows
Originally Posted by Steve Buzbee
We don't require that everyone race with the same headsail during a given race-if we have a choice of chutes as part of a tactical decision, why restrict?


This is true - we allow the choice for up wind sails.


The difference is that the J/30 always had the range of head sails to choose from but just a signal spinnaker. I believe that the major concern is that by allowing a choice of spinnakers, we would effectively raise the cost of ownership for increased sail inventory. One way to preclude that would be make it so only a single spinnaker type is allowed during a regatta series. The downside being, a light air spinnaker may not make it in heavy air.

On a related note, I sent an email to PHRF-NB asking if there would be a rating adjustment if a J/30 were to use a 0.5 oz spinnaker instead of the 0.75 oz spinnaker. I'll post their reply here when I get it.

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