Discussions on everything about the J/30 Sailboat!
With your one stop source
The J/30 Marketplace
Join or Renew
Class Membership
Search

March
M T W T F S S
1 2 3
4 5 6 7 8 9 10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25 26 27 28 29 30 31
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Newest Members
zharv, Corey, Suzie, SSA-BlueJ, Liam Kersch
1017 Registered Users
Crew Manager Boat Websites

Boat Website subscriptions with
Crew Scheduling & Notifications

Created by former J/30 Rhapsody owner

J/30 Social Network
Popular Topics(Views)
976,432 Dacron Main
162,696 Ananda's Refit
Forum Statistics
Forums28
Topics3,983
Posts19,061
Members1,018
Most Online238
Feb 9th, 2024
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Bladder Type Holding Tank #6990
02/26/09 09:36 AM
02/26/09 09:36 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 649
Marblehead, MA
dbows Offline OP
Senior Member
dbows  Offline OP
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 649
Marblehead, MA
Are bladder type holding tanks in the same spot as my rigid tank an acceptable alternative?

Thanks,
David


David Bows
Mallorca - Hull# 397
~~~~~_/)~_/)~~~~_/)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~
Re: Bladder Type Holding Tank [Re: dbows] #7000
02/27/09 05:20 PM
02/27/09 05:20 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 155
Annapolis, MD US
LChristy Offline
J/30 Class Measurer
LChristy  Offline
J/30 Class Measurer
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 155
Annapolis, MD US
David

Is your old tank defective? I will take this up with the rules committee and get back to you.
Larry Christy

Re: Bladder Type Holding Tank [Re: LChristy] #7018
03/02/09 07:31 PM
03/02/09 07:31 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 649
Marblehead, MA
dbows Offline OP
Senior Member
dbows  Offline OP
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 649
Marblehead, MA
Defective? No just getting close to replacement time and was thinking the bladder would be a simpler install and probably a simpler thing to replace in the future.


David Bows
Mallorca - Hull# 397
~~~~~_/)~_/)~~~~_/)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~
Re: Bladder Type Holding Tank [Re: dbows] #7083
03/10/09 03:54 PM
03/10/09 03:54 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 155
Annapolis, MD US
LChristy Offline
J/30 Class Measurer
LChristy  Offline
J/30 Class Measurer
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 155
Annapolis, MD US
Ok give me a few days. Is there a deadline?

Re: Bladder Type Holding Tank [Re: LChristy] #7085
03/10/09 04:11 PM
03/10/09 04:11 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 457
Highland Park, NJ
Steve Buzbee Offline
Senior Member
Steve Buzbee  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 457
Highland Park, NJ
I would guess there might be a pretty significant weight difference-those plastic tanks are pretty heavy (nothing like excess weight in the pointy end!)


Steve Buzbee
Blue Meanie J/30 #485
Re: Bladder Type Holding Tank [Re: Steve Buzbee] #7086
03/10/09 04:15 PM
03/10/09 04:15 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 155
Annapolis, MD US
LChristy Offline
J/30 Class Measurer
LChristy  Offline
J/30 Class Measurer
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 155
Annapolis, MD US
Dbows
What is the weight of your proposed bladder replacement?
Larry Christy

Re: Bladder Type Holding Tank [Re: Steve Buzbee] #7087
03/10/09 04:54 PM
03/10/09 04:54 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,668
Portsmouth, RI
Rhapsody #348 Offline
Past J/30 Class President
Rhapsody #348  Offline
Past J/30 Class President
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,668
Portsmouth, RI
Actually, the empty polyethylene tanks are very light when empty (~15 pounds for 15 Gal tank). A bladder tank of similar capacity is about 6 pounds. Just look at the shipping weights in a Marine catalog for the ballpark comparison. The weight is in the stuff that fills it up! That's comparable to water or ~ 8.4 pounds per gallon.

I don't thing this is a weight issue from a class rules standpoint, but Larry will have to weigh in (pun intended...)

For my money, I want my stuff in a rigid walled polyethylene tank, not some bladder.

Re: Bladder Type Holding Tank [Re: Rhapsody #348] #7088
03/10/09 05:04 PM
03/10/09 05:04 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 457
Highland Park, NJ
Steve Buzbee Offline
Senior Member
Steve Buzbee  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 457
Highland Park, NJ
Ahhh, but the weight differential increases as the tanks get bigger. A 25 gal polyethylene tank weighs in at 44 pounds (at least according to a Defender Industries listing) while a 25 gal bladder type is still about 6 pounds. I have no idea how big those holding tanks are, but I'm pretty sure they are more than 15 gallons. 36 extra pounds carried well forward is some very serious weight-recall the debate over the stove which is carried much closer to midship and weighs in at only ~12 pounds.

If replacement was permitted, I know I would consider swapping out for the lighter tank setup-I race a bunch of J-29's in PHRF, and weight in the ends is deadly.


Steve Buzbee
Blue Meanie J/30 #485
Re: Bladder Type Holding Tank [Re: Steve Buzbee] #7089
03/10/09 05:24 PM
03/10/09 05:24 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,668
Portsmouth, RI
Rhapsody #348 Offline
Past J/30 Class President
Rhapsody #348  Offline
Past J/30 Class President
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,668
Portsmouth, RI
Steve - the holding tank is about 14 gallons - you can measure the dimensions and calculate the volume. Think of your 25 gallon analogy above. Cut a 55 gallon drum in half (take the smaller half) and that would be about the size of a tank you describe. No way that sucker fits in the v-berth!

We're talking about a 10 pound differential here on dry weight between a bladder tank and a poly tank. If you store a gallon of fresh water (or beer) that's pretty close to the weight differential. You'll get more mileage out of keeping the tank pumped dry.

Re: Bladder Type Holding Tank [Re: Rhapsody #348] #7090
03/10/09 05:41 PM
03/10/09 05:41 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 457
Highland Park, NJ
Steve Buzbee Offline
Senior Member
Steve Buzbee  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 457
Highland Park, NJ
No way you'll get me to store a couple of gallons of water forward of the head area! And I don't think I agree with your estimate of the size of the tank-I figure the tank is (at the top) about 3' wide aft, 1' wide forward, and about 3' long. That would be a top surface area of a little over 5 square feet. So conservatively, figure 5 cubic feet of volume (the tank is deeper than one foot, but tapers quite a bit). A gallon of water occupies .1337 cu. ft, so I would estimate 5/.1337=37 gallons.

I can't believe I just wasted so much time on...waste.


Steve Buzbee
Blue Meanie J/30 #485
Re: Bladder Type Holding Tank [Re: Steve Buzbee] #7091
03/10/09 06:37 PM
03/10/09 06:37 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,668
Portsmouth, RI
Rhapsody #348 Offline
Past J/30 Class President
Rhapsody #348  Offline
Past J/30 Class President
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,668
Portsmouth, RI
I think your dimension estimates are on the large side, but don't have better data to support that without actual measurements. I do know there is no way the holding tank is larger than the potable water tank, which on Rhapsody is 18 Gallons.

Other Data to support the Tank Capacity:
Hull #371 - 14 Gallon Holding Tank
Hull #512 - 10 Gallon Holding Tank
Hull #80 - 12 Gallon Holding Tank
Hull #444 - 10 Gallon Holding Tank

I'll throw in an extra gallon on the largest shown just for you and call it an even 15....

Re: Bladder Type Holding Tank [Re: Rhapsody #348] #7097
03/11/09 07:03 PM
03/11/09 07:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 649
Marblehead, MA
dbows Offline OP
Senior Member
dbows  Offline OP
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 649
Marblehead, MA
I think mine is 12 - 15 gallons. I know 8-10 flushes is about max before I like to off load when I am cruising.

Anyway I was really just wondering if anyone had done this - I think I will just replace with what I have.


David Bows
Mallorca - Hull# 397
~~~~~_/)~_/)~~~~_/)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~
Re: Bladder Type Holding Tank [Re: dbows] #7103
03/11/09 08:34 PM
03/11/09 08:34 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 457
Highland Park, NJ
Steve Buzbee Offline
Senior Member
Steve Buzbee  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 457
Highland Park, NJ
I'm curious if the post '84 models have larger tanks. Mine fills almost the entire forward storage compartment under the v-berth. To my eye, it appears to be significantly larger then the two water tanks combined. Is that what the earlier models have?


Steve Buzbee
Blue Meanie J/30 #485
Re: Bladder Type Holding Tank [Re: Steve Buzbee] #7104
03/11/09 08:50 PM
03/11/09 08:50 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,668
Portsmouth, RI
Rhapsody #348 Offline
Past J/30 Class President
Rhapsody #348  Offline
Past J/30 Class President
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,668
Portsmouth, RI
Steve - there very well could be a difference in model years and explain why our perceptions on tank size are so different. I've attached a picture of the space between the aft end of the holding tank and the bulkhead on the aft end of the space. The tank occupies about the forward third of that space and flits flush against the bulkhead by the anchor locker. You can estimate dimensions by scaling from the size of the hose (1-3/4" OD) and the 8-1/2" x 11" paper chart taped on the tank.

You also mention two water tanks. Hull 348 only has a single 18 gallon polypropylene water tank under the port settee.

If Rod Johnstone calls in for the BOG meeting on 24 March, I'll ask him what he knows about the tank sizes.

[Linked Image]
Sanitary Piping Diagram & Valve Lineup

Re: Bladder Type Holding Tank [Re: Rhapsody #348] #7107
03/11/09 09:59 PM
03/11/09 09:59 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 457
Highland Park, NJ
Steve Buzbee Offline
Senior Member
Steve Buzbee  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 457
Highland Park, NJ
Great picture-it's possible that my memory may be flawed. I'll have a look this weekend. By the way-that is an immaculate (and complicated) set of hoses!


Steve Buzbee
Blue Meanie J/30 #485
Re: Bladder Type Holding Tank [Re: Steve Buzbee] #7115
03/12/09 12:30 PM
03/12/09 12:30 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 649
Marblehead, MA
dbows Offline OP
Senior Member
dbows  Offline OP
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 649
Marblehead, MA
The picture is exactly like mine. Except you could not eat off it as you could Bill's.


David Bows
Mallorca - Hull# 397
~~~~~_/)~_/)~~~~_/)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~
Rules Interpretation: Bladder Type Holding Tank [Re: dbows] #11141
02/23/11 02:28 PM
02/23/11 02:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 186
Barrington, RI
cstoddard Offline
Senior Member
cstoddard  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 186
Barrington, RI
following is my "Rules Interpretation" on this issue

A holding tank is required with a capacity equal or greater to the original equipment (about 14 gallons) The tank must be located in the same location as the original tank. Bladder tanks are an acceptable alternative. Installation for discharge must be in accordance with the current federal and state laws


Charlie Stoddard
Falcon #229
Re: Rules Interpretation: Bladder Type Holding Tank [Re: dbows] #11158
02/24/11 06:01 PM
02/24/11 06:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 5
Victoria BC Canada
Martin & Louise Offline
Forum Newbie
Martin & Louise  Offline
Forum Newbie
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 5
Victoria BC Canada
LimeLight hull 51 has a bladder, 14 gal It was installed in the early 90's. And seems to be working just fine and is good for racing. However up in Canda BC there isnt has many pump out as there is in the USA and we find 14 Gal to be a bit small when we are cruising. Thinking about putting in a tank with larger capacity 20 to 25 gal for those summer trips, plus I am not sure what the shelf life of the bladder is and wouldnt want it to fail.

Re: Rules Interpretation: Bladder Type Holding Tank [Re: dbows] #19054
08/07/22 01:38 AM
08/07/22 01:38 AM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 9
Chile
J
Joao Brito CHILE Offline
Forum Newbie
Joao Brito CHILE  Offline
Forum Newbie
J
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 9
Chile
Hello everyone, I live in Santiago, Chile. I will try to express myself in English. I need a detail of the solution for direct discharge of water from the toilet to the outside. somebody could help me? Thanks a lot

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  LChristy 

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 48 guests, and 13 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Photos
2023 Clipper Cup - Conundrum USA32866
Windy Wednesday night
Hurricane Gulch San Pedro, CA
Truckin'
Endeavour (246) Sailing in Prince Edward Island
Recent Posts
Hull # 229 Falcon parts for sale
by Sunrise. 03/16/24 08:26 PM
Adjusting Throttle & Transmission Controls
by Rhapsody #348. 03/10/24 08:25 AM
Engine Cover Steps
by David Erwin. 03/10/24 01:35 AM
Cushions
by Corey. 02/25/24 10:02 PM
Sold: #2 Dacron Jib
by Brent. 02/17/24 05:12 PM
J/30 Survey
by David Erwin. 02/16/24 06:43 PM
looking for j30 center table
by wilybilds. 02/16/24 04:49 PM
1984 J/30 - Hull #488 Shamrock
by Bruce Irvin. 01/30/24 12:12 AM
Cabin Table Wanted
by B Davis. 01/20/24 11:03 PM
Fuel Fill O Ring
by watchoverya. 01/11/24 05:35 PM
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1