We went out for our shakedown sail last night in 10kt winds
I had a lot of weather helm close hauled....+/- 3 to 5 degrees off neutral
We just installed a new headstay / furler and I made sure it was 35ft 6in pin to pin
The shrouds were set to 40 uppers and 42 lowers

We went out with the 148% furler genoa + full main
Could the weather helm be due to the lack of halyard tension on the genoa's luff due to the furler?
To how high the genoa is off the deck?
Can it be in the rig tuning?

Or is it all in poor sail set?

In those winds most of you would have gone out with a 163%....I couldn't imagine the weather helm I would have had with that setup / overlap

Thanks
Taras

Lowers shouldn't be tighter than uppers, and the pin to pin is 35'-10 1/2", not 35'-6". I also don't find the 163 adds to helm much at all in 10 knots-the additional sail area forward pushes the bow down, not up. Additionally, check mast butt position-should be EXACTLY one inch back from the step in the floor in the head. This is very critical to getting all the other rig settings to work. That said, 3 to 5 degrees isn't that much helm-you need a little helm to help feel the boat.

Finally ( and most important) was the boat being sailed flat? Heel increases helm radically-you should always (other than really light wind) sail as flat as you can. We sail with a minimum of 6 adults on the rail fully hiked whenever possible (obviously this applies primarily when racing).

Steve's advice is right on. You may want to look through the old thread Mast Set Up/Rig Tension for typical J/30 rig setup and adjustments. I can tell you that on Rhapsody, the rig tune is different for different sails that I own.

This is for one design setup, but I think you could use it as a guide then try adjusting the rig tune with your roller furling to see how the performance changes. Record the base conditions, speed, point, etc. for each adjustment, then go with what works best for the conditions.

Rig rake is key to weather helm (where the mast but sets). Once you get this correct and the rig the right tension it should be well balanced with a slight bit of helm when close hauled. If you get this right and there is still helm then you are not sailing high enough. If you are cracked off slightly and let the boat heal too much the helm will really load up.

Try sailing just by heel (as Steve says) keep it at 10-13 degrees - if you heel more just head up until it settles down. You can really kick the J/30 into 4th gear when you sail high and flat. When people sail the boat for the first time they really cannot believe the groove the boat will get into at a very high angle and low heel.

Thanks for the old thread and the advise
Not sure if my Loos Guage is a Model B or PT-2
I may be too tight
And no, she wasn't flat,....we were heeled 30 degrees or more with 4-5 on the rail
I was sailing to the genoa telltales,..inside fluttering

I once received advise to continuously scoop her up to windward (to flatten) then fall off for speed and repeat....not to try sailing her in a straight line when close hauled
Any truth to this?

I will re-work the rig and try again

Thanks

What angle (reading) should we have close hauled on our wind direction indicator? Ours was reading 2.5 - 3

The Model B has the bent metal at 90 degrees the top. You pull a loop tied on and read an arrow on the metal scale while pulling to take the reading. The PT-2 had a spring loaded plastic insert with a pointer where you read the setting. Once it is clipped on the stay, you don't have to continuously pull the tab like the Model B to get a reading.

David Bows wrote about finding the groove. That's basically what you describe, but when you get the hang of it, the heading up and falling off to stay in the slot is very minimal. You should have someone play your traveler in the puffs to help keep you flat and prevent from being knocked down. Ease on the puff, then raise the traveler again. On Rhapsody, this eats sailing gloves!

First off, 3 degrees of weeather helm is not bad at all... most of us rake the rig more to induce weather helm for lightish winds.

Heeling at 30 degrees will produce weather helm. 10-15 degrees of heel is better. ... some suggestions:

- draft location in the jib should be 40-45% or so. If it's aft of 50, that will contribute to heeling. More jib halyard tension.

- Same with main... draft location should be about 45%. Add more main halyard tension if possible.

- Flatten the main ... backstay on tighter (of course this will move draft aft in the main, so you'll need more main halyard).

- Drop the traveler down.

- Get the jib trimmer up on the windward rail.

I am confused with the pin to pin dimension
On the J30 site / principal dimensions it states the headstay length as 35ft 6in (that's why I had the new forestay + furler made to this length .... eye to eye )
And I have seen other specs with 35ft 10 1/2in to the plate (not clevis pin)
And the UK guide says the length from the jib halyard to the hook is 35ft 2in

What is the correct eye to eye dimension?

See class rules 5.8.2.1 and look at the diagram in figure 1 showing the measurement point. It is 10935 mm (35'10.5")

Thanks Bill
As per rule 5.8.2.1 the headstay length is less than or equal to 35ft10.5in to the deck / plate
Therefore a 35'6" eye to eye dimension as stipulated in the specs page in the info tab is within the rules

Thanks

I measured the distance this morning from the center of the bottom eye to the measuring point (as per class rules) and it is 3 1/2 inches. This gives me a 35ft 9.5in total headstay length (which is 1 inch shy of the rules max length)

With uppers @42 and lowers @42, I measured the mast rake from masthead to boom to be 15 inches
The true test will be under sail to see the mainsail shape / cut with the mast's prebend....I will adjust the lowers accordingly

Taras

Taras - you really want to get that extra inch out and make the headstay the max allowable length. Shortening the headstay is ok for heavy air, but you want the full extension of the mast without pressure from the backstay raking back the top of the mast for lighter conditions. I remove one side of the backstay from the transom just to make sure it is loose when setting up the uppers and lowers.

Understood
Presently my backstay is limp / totally not engaged
Is 15" rake good?
I will measure my prebend tonight...should be 2" to 3"

Taras