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2009 J/30 North Americans Sailing Instructions #7830
09/08/09 12:03 PM
09/08/09 12:03 PM
Joined: May 2009
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EricLaser Offline OP
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EricLaser  Offline OP
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I think the SIs are final.

Eric Robbins
PRO

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J30_NA_SI_2009.pdf [160.38 KBytes] - (349 downloads)
Re: 2009 J/30 North Americans Sailing Instructions [Re: EricLaser] #7832
09/08/09 04:10 PM
09/08/09 04:10 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 457
Highland Park, NJ
Steve Buzbee Offline
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Steve Buzbee  Offline
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Highland Park, NJ
Did I miss something? I think 18 doesn't specify how many throwouts if seven races are sailed. It only says if five or fewer races are sailed, there will be no throwout.


Steve Buzbee
Blue Meanie J/30 #485
Re: 2009 J/30 North Americans Sailing Instructions [Re: Steve Buzbee] #7833
09/08/09 07:10 PM
09/08/09 07:10 PM
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EricLaser Offline OP
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EricLaser  Offline OP
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Appendix A applies unless the SI change it. In Appendix A there is always a throwout (even if the regatta is one race!). Rule A2 permits the SI to "make a different arrangement", which the referenced sentence in the SI does. So, that means if 5 or more are sailed, then the throwout of the default rule applies.

Re: 2009 J/30 North Americans Sailing Instructions [Re: EricLaser] #7835
09/09/09 08:46 AM
09/09/09 08:46 AM
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Posts: 457
Highland Park, NJ
Steve Buzbee Offline
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Steve Buzbee  Offline
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Highland Park, NJ
Thanks for the clarification-I should have known that!


Steve Buzbee
Blue Meanie J/30 #485
Re: Effect of Scoring Penalty on Rule 31 [Re: Steve Buzbee] #7844
09/12/09 06:05 PM
09/12/09 06:05 PM
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EricLaser Offline OP
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On to the next topic. It seems a subtle change to the heading of rule 44 now makes the Scoring Penalty also apply to Touching a Mark. Here is the email thread on this topic:

From Larry -
As you may know there has been alot of confusion over Rule 31 this year. You may want to clarify that at the Skippers Meeting.

Larry -
Can you fill me in on what confusion you have encountered? Is it with rule 31, Touching a Mark, or with the One Turn penalty?

Eric

Whether it is a 20% or 360 for hitting a mark.

If the 20% is in effect there is no 360.
Larry

Larry -
I learn something at every event I participate in. Here are the responses from two highly respected Judges:

Eric,

I think that this has caught everyone by surprise. I have been searching the internet to see if anyone has talked about this change, but no luck. I am still searching.

The best I can tell; he is correct. Here is what 44.1 says about taking penalties:
44.1 Taking a Penalty
A boat may take a Two-Turns Penalty when she may have broken a rule of Part 2 while racing or a One-Turn Penalty when she may have broken rule 31. Sailing instructions may specify the use of the Scoring Penalty or some other penalty. However,
(a) when a boat may have broken a rule of Part 2 and rule 31 in the
same incident she need not take the penalty for breaking rule
31;
(b) if the boat caused injury or serious damage or gained a significant
advantage in the race or series by her breach her penalty
shall be to retire.
44.2 describes the turns penalty and 44.3 describes the scoring penalty.

You may change RRS 44.1 so that penalties only apply to Part 2. I see no reason to do so. If you did, you would have to make sure that they understood the penalty for breaking RRS 31. Personally, I would leave it alone.

In the 2005-08 RRS, penalties only applied to Part 2 and RRS 44 was titled: 44 PENALTIES FOR BREAKING RULES OF PART 2; in 2009-12; RRS 44 is titled: 44 PENALTIES AT THE TIME OF AN INCIDENT. Note the subtle difference. I guess the reasoning is if the conditions are too dangerous for doing two turns for part 2, they are also too dangerous to do one turn for RRS 31.

And that's the way it is.

Henry

From Judy -
I agree with Henry.

The new judges manual has several references to "rule of part 2 or rule 31" similar to the following (found in the section on Arbitration):

"A boat that may have broken a rule of Part 2 or rule 31 while racing may take a penalty after she is no longer racing and prior to the start of a protest hearing involving the incident. Her penalty shall be a Scoring Penalty"

I have not seen much use of the scoring penalty in recent years but it sounds like it would apply to rules of part 2 and rule 31.

Judy Hanlon

So, Larry, based on the wording of the SI, the penalty for touching a mark would also be optional, either a One-Turn or a Scoring Penalty. This is an unintended consequence of copying this SI from 2006 & 2007. At the moment, it does not seem to be a problem that needs to be solved, but I will continue to listen to the Class.

Eric

Re: Effect of Scoring Penalty on Rule 31 [Re: EricLaser] #7854
09/15/09 02:54 PM
09/15/09 02:54 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 457
Highland Park, NJ
Steve Buzbee Offline
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Steve Buzbee  Offline
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Highland Park, NJ
The way I read the instructions and the rules, competitors may choose scoring or turns penalties. So in the same race, one could theoretically commit a section two foul, take the scoring penalty, and then later hit a mark and clear by doing a 360. I don't see where one method proscribes the other.


Steve Buzbee
Blue Meanie J/30 #485
Re: Effect of Scoring Penalty on Rule 31 [Re: Steve Buzbee] #7873
09/17/09 10:26 AM
09/17/09 10:26 AM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 457
Highland Park, NJ
Steve Buzbee Offline
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Steve Buzbee  Offline
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Highland Park, NJ
Eric-

Will there be any provision made for a Saturday weigh in for substitute crew that can't be there on Friday?

Steve


Steve Buzbee
Blue Meanie J/30 #485
Re: Effect of Scoring Penalty on Rule 31 [Re: Steve Buzbee] #7875
09/17/09 10:44 AM
09/17/09 10:44 AM
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Posts: 9
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EricLaser Offline OP
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EricLaser  Offline OP
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Steve, that is correct.

Eric

Re: Effect of Scoring Penalty on Rule 31 [Re: Steve Buzbee] #7876
09/17/09 10:45 AM
09/17/09 10:45 AM
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EricLaser Offline OP
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EricLaser  Offline OP
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As in prior years, you can expect a notice to be posted specifying an early, short time window for weigh-ins on race days.

Eric


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