This is a discussion of the J/30 rule on the tiller and tiller extension. I am not the measurer, thus not attempting to make a ruling, only considering how the rule would handle the item posted for sale. If you have not arrived at this thread from this posting, For Sale: Custom Laminated Tillers, the listing is for a beautifully laminated mahogany and ash curved tiller, which is split down the middle with ash and mahogany stiffeners glued in. Seller claims the tiller is light (3 lbs) and strong.

As noted on the original post, I am not sure I have any problem with this tiller, but do encourage class members to be vigilant about complying with our rules. The current rule is 5.6.2 Tiller and tiller extension may be altered in length and material, but must be equivalent to that provided by the builder.

How would a measurer apply this somewhat fuzzy language to this or other tillers? Altering length is clearly allowed, that is shorter or longer. Since the rule is silent on width and height, one may assume they must remain the same as that supplied by the builder.

The questions involve two words, alter and equivalent.

Since the original builder supplied tiller was made of wood, must the tiller be wood before it is altered? Is the hollow tiller a reasonable alteration? The builder supplied tiller extension was stainless steel, while most modern versions are not. This may present a problem for the many replacements now in use since it would be hard to say they were altered.

Equivalent, is defined in Dictionary.com as: equal in value, measure, force, effect, significance, etc.; corresponding in position, function, etc.; something that performs substantially the same function as another thing in substantially the same way.

I wasn’t surprised to find this rule had been revised. Version dated April 1982 (Journal #3): "5.6.2 Tiller and tiller extension may be altered in length and material, but must be equivalent in weight (italics mine) to that provided by the builder." Those words disappeared in the next new revision I could find, dated January 1, 1985 (Journal #6).

Rule writers went from requiring that they be the same weight to just the same. So does that mean the hollow, lighter tiller is ok? Also, while I have never heard anyone complain about curved tillers, unless the builder supplied them, I'd be hard pressed to say they are the same, so this rule might need a tune up to allow them.

Here are some ideas for clarifying this either with a measurer’s ruling (quick and easy) or a rule change (time consuming). I’d like to see tiller material specified as wood, laminated wood, or wood with fiber glass reinforcing. Any length, straight or curved. Maybe a minimum weight, though I doubt there is more than a pound between the original tiller and the one Luke has built. The heavy-duty stainless brackets and bolts that attach the tiller to the rudder should be required.

I’d make the tiller extension optional and unrestricted, except possibly in length. The mainsheet and traveler limit the tiller length. Limiting the extension length would keep skippers in the cockpit where they belong.

Bob

In thinking about this as measurer there is a a large number of varations on tillers and extentions out there. I agree we need to tune up the rule My thoughts are the metal brackets must remain. no restrictions on weight and length hiking extentions are open

Since you have done such a nice job on the research on this and have thought thru the wording of the change You know have the task of writing out the wording you would like to see in the rules YOU get the task of making the proposal for change

Charlie

Glad to a write a straw proposal. Before doing so, do class members feel the tiller itself should be restricted to wood?

APS lists this J/30 laminated wood tiller (HM1252F shape B) 1/4" mahogany/ash, with four coats of varnish, 54 1/2", with 4" rise, and 2 3/8" x 2 1/2" butt for $107.98.

Or should we allow something like this $800-900 carbon fiber job at APS (for the FT10)? (click here for more pics)

wood is good

Tiller should be wood

Tiller should be wood

Why do we care what the material it is as long as the metal parts are still there? I doubt everyone is going to rush out and buy carbon tillers to drop at most 2.5 pounds.

I think it should remain unrestricted in material as it is today.

Laser, among the strictest one-designs in the world in most ways, does not restrict the tiller and tiller extension. Many, maybe the majority of Laser sailors use a $200+ carbon tiller and $100+ carbon extension, including me on my 1982 beater that leaks. Why? They're stiff, providing great feel. They don't bend or break. Before I got my new extension I had to straighten out my aluminum extension after every breezy day.

Despite the fuzzy language if anyone showed up at a one-design event with anything resembling the carbon CCI tiller (linked above) I'd call foul. Equivalent does not mean unrestricted.

I can live with wood because I an not going to plunk down for a carbon tiller. Now one of Luke's wood ones I might (-:

Wood would be my choice

Seth Shepard IV
Vice President Engineering & Facilities Planning
Griffin Hospital
130 Division Street
Derby, CT 06418
Tel: 203.732.7343
Fax: 203.732.1343
E-mail: sshepard@griffinhealth.org

Maybe there should be a restriction on glass vs metal beer cans. I vote glass because we only serve Sam Adams on wildcat.

Since beer containers seem to be optional equipment (well, at least my boat didn't come with any), I'd suggest that any material would be acceptable, even Kevlar should that ever be an available option in the future.

What? Did you buy the boat new? Don Kidd (the J/dealer in RI in 1986) had my cooler stocked full when I bought the boat. I assumed it was standard equipment. I know my crew thinks it is!

Following is my "Rules Interpretation" on this issue
Replacement tillers manufactured out of wood or fiberglass are permitted. The base stock of the tiller shall be of the same dimensions as the original tiller The Stainless Steel brackets supplied as factory equipment must be reused. There is no limitation on the length or shape of the tiller.There is no limitation on the type, material or length of the hiking stick