J/30 Class Association

DC Electrical Panel Replacement

Posted By: Rhapsody #348

DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 08/06/12 06:15 PM

I am considering a project this coming winter to replace the original DC Electrical panel and replace the boat electrical harness. This is driven by the following:

1. The original wiring installed by TPI was not marine grade "tinned". The wire has oxidized and corroded over time. When the insulation is stripped to re-terminate a connection, all the conductors are covered in black. You can't scrape these easily to make a good connection.

2. The fuse connections and toggle switches on the DC panel have a noticeable voltage drop with any sort of current draw. This is a symptom of oxidized contacts.

3. I've added some custom accessories as many have done that require circuit protection and the ability to isolate. Examples of things added are Stereo, Autohelm, Macerator pump, 12V accessory outlets and various navigation instruments.

4. Illuminated circuit breakers are much easier to read and are nicer than having to carry a bunch of different size fuses.

I have asked Paneltronics of Hialeah Gardens, FL to quote a semi-custom DC panel. Additionally I asked that they send mechanical dimensions for an existing Model 5203 panel with 50amp master breaker, meters and eleven circuit breakers of different capacity matched to the loads I've specified and labeled to my specs. The panel is 9.75" tall and 11" wide. Here is a generic picture of the panel.
[Linked Image]

Based on my correspondence with Paneltronics, they indicated they are aware that Lorco, the original J/30 electrical panel manufacturer is out of business. I've asked Paneltronics if they would be willing to quote a standard J/30 drop in replacement panel that uses circuit breakers rather than the toggle switches and fuses. I also suggested that they could offer the "standard" panel replacement, and the custom panel, similar to what I am having quoted. The custom panel would not be drop in compatible as the dimensions would be different and require a different size cutout.

Question - is there interest by J/30 owners for either type of these panels? If so, we may be able to get a quantity pricing discount.

Posted By: Bob Rude

Re: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 08/06/12 07:54 PM

For what it's worth...

About ten years ago I bought an 8-gang circuit breaker panel from Bass Industries in CT. There were no LEDs or LCDs on the panel. The reasons for the change were exactly what Bill mentioned. I had the yard install the panel and do the rewiring of it and a KVH digital compass. The total cost was somewhere around $1000.

My present panel has the following switches:

1. cabin lights
2. steaming light
3. running lights
4. autopilot
5. vhf radio
6. foredeck light
7. gps
8. instruments

In retrospect, I wish I had a few extra switches in case I wanted to add anything. Nevertheless, I'm glad I made the switch when I did. I think with a little time and effort, a multimeter, some appropriate 16 gauge wires of the appropriate color, and a second set of hands, the average handyman could make the changeover.

While you're at it, replace your interior lights with LEDs and do the same with your running lights.

Thanks, Bill.

Bob Rude
Posted By: Bob Rutsch

Re: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 08/06/12 10:10 PM

Great timing. I've been reading various postings (ground & fuse) as I troubleshoot balky fuses, navigation lights, intermittent speed/depth instruments, and now difficult starting even with fully charged batteries. Daunting task mid-season with temps above 90 to spend a half day below sorting out electrical problems. Maybe wait until after the Fall season ends to rip it out and start over.
Posted By: David Erwin

Re: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 08/07/12 03:41 AM

Very nice Bill. Bob, what model LEDs do you reoommend down below? I have LEDs externally already - love em'...
Posted By: sonskyn

Re: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 08/07/12 08:12 AM

I was looking at the Bluesea 8068 as a replacement panel 10.5" x 7.5" and a complete rewire for the same reasons.
Posted By: Rhapsody #348

Re: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 08/07/12 10:54 AM

Koos - I looked at that but what I didn't like was it came with all the breakers at 15amp rating. By the time I bought the desired breakers to swap out the various circuits, the cost runs pretty high. My breaker requirements are from 5 to 30 amps and outlined at this link
Posted By: D. Bartley

Re: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 08/07/12 01:50 PM

Don't seem to have quite the corrosion problems in freshwater.

I'd be interested in how much a panel would cost though
Posted By: NaturalHigh

Re: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 08/07/12 07:56 PM

I'd be interested for the right price. What I am scared of is the re-wire that I know needs to be done. I suppose it isn't as bad as other boats but it does not seem easy feeding a new wire harness through the interior fittings!
Posted By: Rhapsody #348

Re: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 08/08/12 01:09 PM

William Montes from Paneltronics has registered on the forum and will be offering suggestions and answering questions for electrical panel alternatives. He sent me an email about a different panel model 2206 that has a single meter and is slightly smaller at 11" W x 8.25" H.

[Linked Image]

I've asked William if it is possible for the single meter to be a multimeter with a switch to select voltage and current monitoring. I've also asked if there could be a switch position for "off" so the meter is disconnected to prevent current drain.

I plan on taking measurements and pictures of the current Lorco panel so that he can work on a quote for a drop in replacement that many J/30 owners might be interested in.
Posted By: nemonaute

Re: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 08/08/12 07:28 PM

Strange coincidence ! The last days I was thinking about re-wiring all the electrical system of the boat and changing pieces on the electrical panel.

Moreover, I am installing a BlueSea multimeter to monitor current and voltage.

It's a pity, my multimeter is already bought. So I won't need one on the panel.

I wonder if Paneltronics will be able to put the "J30" logo on the new panel ?
Posted By: PaneltronicsWill

Re: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 08/09/12 01:07 PM


Thanks for the intro Bill - Our panel model 2206 is a slick panel giving you 12 circuit breaker positions (you choose the amperages), a main, a meter and a switch that can be wired to perform a number of actions. We have sucessfully designed an AC Digital Multimeter but are only in design stages of a DC Digital Multimeter which would've been ideal for this panel and application. I would like to see the pictures and actual measurements of the Lorco panel to see what we are working with and get the J/30 owners an accurate drop-in panel replacement. Please pass this information along at your convenience.
Posted By: PaneltronicsWill

Re: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 08/09/12 01:22 PM

@nemonaute - Assuming that the BlueSea meter you mention is DC then it is very similar to what we are designing now. If you've already made the purchase no worries, we have produced panels with breakers only and a cutout for the meter of choice so you can install it in our panel. If this option is of interest please let me know. The J30 logo would look pretty sharp, unfortunately without the express written consent of JBoats we cannot put the logo on our panels. Cheers!
Posted By: Rhapsody #348

Re: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 08/09/12 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by PaneltronicsWill
@nemonaute - Assuming that the BlueSea ... The J30 logo would look pretty sharp, unfortunately without the express written consent of JBoats we cannot put the logo on our panels. Cheers!

William - once there is a standard replacement panel agreed to, the J/30 class will work with J/Boats to obtain permission to have the J/30 logo on the panel. We have obtained similar permission from J/Boats, and can work this issue directly with them.
Posted By: Bob Rude

Re: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 08/09/12 02:17 PM

For those of you considering LED cabin lights, here's what I installed. While they're not as bright as the original halogen, they provide plenty of light and the price was right...about $25 per light as I recall. It's a nice feeling knowing that you can have your lights on as long as you want and you're not drawing down your battery.

[Linked Image]

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Posted By: NaturalHigh

Re: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 08/09/12 03:40 PM

That panel is nice! It is perfect for my needs I think.

I would like a multimeter though so I can monitor current.
Posted By: PaneltronicsWill

Re: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 08/09/12 06:08 PM

@NaturalHigh - The DC meters available to use on the 2206 panel are as follows:

Digital:
DC Voltmeter (P/N: 570-001B ; 0-50VDC)
DC Ammeter (P/N: 570-002B ; 0-100DCA)
DC Ammeter (P/N: 570-006B ; 0-500DCA)

Analog:
DC Voltmeter (P/N: 289-001 ; 8-16VDC)
DC Voltmeter (P/N: 289-017 ; 16-32VDC)
DC Voltmeter (P/N: 289-025 ; 0-50 VDC)
DC Ammeter (P/N: 289-002 ; 0-50DCA)
DC Ammeter (P/N: 289-005 ; 0-80DCA)
DC Ammeter (P/N: 289-014 ; 0-100DCA)

Any of the DC Ammeters would suffice your current monitoring requirement.

Posted By: Cap'n Vic

Re: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 08/09/12 08:34 PM

So OK ... if you are wondering if there is a problem in your electric system, something to look for is a lower voltage reading on the GPS voltage window ... than at the panel or at the battery direct.
And also if your new radio is dropping from 25W transmit to 1W and calling out low voltage, when you have reasonably new batteries.

I'm thinking there may have been at least three different panels installed.

This one is from #526 and is different from the one installed in #505. [Linked Image]

It is ~6-3/8 in. by 10 in.

The other stuff is related to the AC and Stove/Oven control ...

[Linked Image]

note although there is a anchor light noted ... don't think any were ever factory installed. Note dozen fuses and generic J Boat logo.

The right column fuses were Radio, GPS, something I forget and Aux 1,2 and 3.

The Vee Jays have "Night" which turns on 5w red night lights at the top of the stairs and under the head sink ... Always good to have some red stuff going at night.

Also boat came equipped with 2 water tanks, water heater, water pressure pump etc. was basically cruising version.


Description: Original fuse panel from #526
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Description: original installation of all electric panels #526
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Posted By: Rhapsody #348

Rhapsody Pics: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 08/10/12 03:09 AM

Below are pictures of the original DC power panel on Rhapsody. It is interesting to note this is different than Vic has on the two Vee Jays. Note that the AC breaker and 110V outlet were added by me. I also added a battery charger that is not visible in the photo.

Picture 1 shows the panel before I taped custom labels on. The panel is 8.5" wide by 8" tall. The screw holes are 7-7/8" between centers across and 7-3/8" between centers vertical. The panel is 3/32" thick.
[Linked Image]

Picture 2 is the panel with some custom labels I've taped on.
[Linked Image]

Picture 3 is a view of the panel back.
[Linked Image]

Picture 4 is a view of the area cutout of the wood. The cutout is 7" wide by 7" tall.
[Linked Image]




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Posted By: Cap'n Vic

Re: Rhapsody Pics: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 08/10/12 11:00 AM

1. If you have ever been confused when going aboard another J/30 and asked to turn one of the switches on ... and that switch not doing what it was supposed to do --

look at the order differences between the two left side banks of 6 switches ... And I thought it may have been because i had had one too many blue cans.

2. Bill ... you have bilge pump connected through the master panel ... but don't you shut off the master switch when you leave the boat ... we have bilge connected directly to Battery 2, which in our case is the aft battery.
Posted By: Rhapsody #348

Re: Rhapsody Pics: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 08/10/12 11:35 AM

Vic - I wanted to be able to easily isolate all the circuits, so used a spare switch on the panel that was designated for Water Pressure. Since there was no water pump, I relabeled it, and installed a 3 position toggle switch for the bilge pump.
Posted By: last fling IV

Re: Rhapsody Pics: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 08/10/12 09:17 PM

The best auto bilge pump power source is a fused line directly from one battery. It cannot drain both batteries, but will operate when you are not on the boat and the main bettry switch is off. Been paid to fix boats for 40 years.
Posted By: Cap'n Vic

DC Electrical Panel Replacement layout - 08/10/12 11:20 PM

So OK ... it appears that most of the J/30s came equipped with a variety of 12 fuse DC panels ... but the order of functions varies.

But if we are going to try to standardize on some sort of order ...
consider Lights Left ... everything else right

1. Running Lts | | | | 7. VHF
2. Steaming Lts | | | 8. Nav inst
3. Spreader Lts | | | 9. GPS
4. open | | | | | | 10. open
5. Head Lts | | | | | 11. open
6. Cabin Lts | | | | | 12. Auto Helm

I like running lts top left as that is what we send people down to do in fog, rain, and dark ... top left is nice.
and Steaming Lts have to be right after them as part of a combo.

I like VHF top right.

what you guys think?
Posted By: sonskyn

Re: DC Electrical Panel Replacement layout - 08/11/12 09:10 PM

Agree with Vic's logic
Posted By: Georges

Re: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 08/13/12 04:22 PM

Vic,
From what I saw, Paneltronics has a nice set of easily changeable set of labels. So I am not sure I would add the labeling as part of the standardization... Just a thought.

I have a three way switch that toggle between LED masthead sailing lights and deck + steaming light when running the engine - which will not fit the breakers as I understand them.

Even though I do not see myself replacing yet my panel, I appreciate the efforts to get to a better model. I definitely support the following requirements:
- positive-on LED switch/breakers indication.
- backlight indication of label.
- easily customizable label.
- 12 breakers sounds right to me - although I like my three way switches for lights :-) I would loved also to replace my current three way bilge switch with one integrated and backlighted... but that probably refers to the possibility to used both breaker and fuse in the panel... I did not see this yet offered and not sure how convenient it is.
- Allow for breaker size to accept a couple of gauge 12 wire in the same socket (i/e for nice feeding of autopilots...)
- standardize the meters...

William,
I did not understand, even after reading the specs - what is the accuracy displayed of the digital ammeter - I would focus on the 100DC Amp - which is probably the only one that makes sense on the J/30... Does the right most digit display amps or 1/10 th of amps?

I noticed that the bluesea ammeter have a sleep mode with very low consumption (<0.15 watt ) ... I have no idea what triggers it. It also only need a circular hole not a rectangular one - which is easier to install... But I agree it is much more expansive than paneltronics one and the ease of installation is not relevant to a discussion about a J/30 standard...

Cheers,
Posted By: cstoddard

Re: Rhapsody Pics: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 08/14/12 06:05 PM

I've done a fair amount of rewiring on Falcon over the years

* installed a Blue Sea AC pannel over 10 years ago which handles two plugs, Hot Water heater and the Battery charger

* two years ago I was having issues with DC pannel and replaced it with a Blue Sea pannel P/n 8068 which comes with two meters and 10 breakers with room to add three more. I'm not worried about the circuit breaker rating as all the electronics are each fused as well All wiring is mostly 14 to 168 gauge. Current pannel cost at Jamestown Supply is $499.00

* I found that the primary harness in the boat was in great shape once you trimmed the ends back about 1-2 inches and would not replace it unless you had a short The major corrosion was at the crimp connectors and if you use the heat shink versions that will not reoccur (in our lifetimes)

* what I would do differently would be to install a single DC/AC pannel and put it on a hinge so that it would fold down
This will probably require some wood working skills to build a frame that can handle the weight of the pannel

* so what do I have for DC circuits running lights, steaming light, deck light, masthead/anchor light, cabin lights, wind instruments, autopilot, GPS, Stereo, Inverter, assessory plug and VHF

I have also replaced the cabin lights with LED's expense but a much smaller drain







Posted By: PaneltronicsWill

Re: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 08/15/12 05:50 PM

@Cap'n Vic - Based on the dimensions provided I would recommend Panel# 5201 which is 6.5" x 11" which is a standard panel punch size and keeps the cost considerably lower than a custom or special punch. The 5201 has 12 Branch breaker positions which can be wired and labeld however you prefer. The labels are conveniently changeable and we have a library of about 3000 to choose from. You also have the option of getting this panel with (Premier) or without (Deluxe) backlighting which is convenient when monitoring current drain. If there is an interest from multiple oweners I could even look into a custom combination panel which would include AC/DC, meters and anything else that might be needed.
Posted By: PaneltronicsWill

Re: Rhapsody Pics: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 08/15/12 06:33 PM

@Rhapsody Bill - Based on these dimensions I agree with your initial request ( 5203 ) or my initial suggestion ( 2206 ) both very good options and would fit just right. Within the links provided you are able to customize, add a hinge, select your labels, choose meter type etc.
Posted By: PaneltronicsWill

Re: DC Electrical Panel Replacement layout - 08/15/12 09:10 PM

@Cap'n Vic - The requested layout is doable, also as mentioned previously you can label each position as you'd like and looking through our label library we have the following matches in addition to other options:

RUNNING LIGHTS; P/N: L1627
STEAMING LIGHTS; P/N: L1824
SPREADER LIGHTS; P/N: L13737
OPEN; P/N: L2862
LIGHTS HEAD; P/N: L1169
CABIN LIGHTS; P/N: L393
VHF; P/N: L1981
NAV INST; P/N: L1310
GPS; P/N: L902
OPEN; P/N: L2862
OPEN; P/N: L2862
AUTO HELM; P/N: L214
Posted By: PaneltronicsWill

Re: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 08/15/12 09:38 PM

@Georges - We do have a large library of changeable labels to choose from, if there is no defined label list then not to worry as this will not impact the standardization of the panel itself once decided.

I would like to see this 3-way switch you refer to for your lighting, please let me know if you could send a picture as I beleive we could provide an equivalent solution.

Regarding the meters. The right most digit of the VOLT METER is 1/10th of amps and the right most digit of the AMMETER is whole amp. The accuracy of our meters is 1 count.
Posted By: PaneltronicsWill

Re: Rhapsody Pics: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 08/15/12 10:15 PM

@cstoddard - I'd be interested in putting together an AC/DC panel that includes all requirements in addition to a hinged frame so that it would fold down as mentioned. Note hinge, frame, enclosures and doors are just a few value added options we offer.

If curious you can go to the following link and customize your panel. It is a Link to 5203 which is the colsest match to the BS8068 panel. Assuming you used analog meters for your panel we would be right under the Jamestown pricing you've specified.

Posted By: PaneltronicsWill

Re: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 09/13/12 03:01 PM

Hello all - I wanted to provide my contact information in the event that you will be moving forward with a Paneltronics solution for the Electrical Panel upgrades. In addition we will be at the IBEX show in Kentucky October 2-4 please, stop by and visit us at Booth# 1915 if you are attending.

William Montes
PANELTRONICS
Account Manager
1-800-367-2635 xt. 219
305-824-0805 fax
www.paneltronics.com

Best wishes for fair winds and pleasant sailing!
Posted By: Rhapsody #348

Almost there: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 09/19/12 12:33 PM

I received an email from William Montes at Paneltronics with some good information. He indicated that the Model 2206 panel (11" wide x 8.25" tall with hinge) could be fitted with a digital multimeter so both voltage and current could be monitored using a single meter. Based on my review, this is just about exactly what we need with maximum flexibility to "customize" with an assortment of standard available breaker cuurents and over 3000 standard labels.

Paneltronics can supply this for under $600 each for a quantity of three, or under $660 with ability to monitor Bat 1, Bat 2 or Bus voltage. The under $600 price is for Bat 1 & Bat 2 voltage monitoring only.

Question for J/30 owners - who is interested in potentially purchasing a J/30 customized panel for under $600 or $660 per voltage monitoring option above? Send me an email, or reply here.

I created a list of comments / questions that he confirmed. William's comments are annotated in (blue)

1. The multimeter will handle both current and voltage. (This is correct.)
2. The current is monitored by installing a shunt on the negative side near the battery. I assume the proper shunt is supplied with the meter. (This is correct, Meter will be installed with appropriate shunt.)
3. The connection between the shunt and battery is made via a twisted pair to eliminate noise. (This is correct.)
4. The current displays in 0.1 Amp increments for -99.9 to +500 amp range. (This is correct.)
5. The multimeter has a menu that allows selection between current and voltage. For voltage, the selection of battery 1 or 2 is via the rocker switch, and must be wired back to the battery positive terminals. (This is correct and we could wire our current switch to accommodate this feature.)
Question - is it possible to make the rocker switch 3 position - Battery 1, DC Panel Bus, Battery 2 (label as Bat 1, DC Bus, Bat 2)? That would provide maximum flexibility with the Bat Bus connected on the load side of the 50amp breaker at the panel. (This request will require a modification but is feasible. The modification will consist of a different switch (3 position) and special wiring, there will be an added cost to this request. This solution will run you under $660.00 (Note price does not include J/30 logo which is still TBD))
6. There is a sleep mode on the meter for low power consumption that may be set manually, or a time out. This is very nice! (This is correct.)
7. We could develop the "standard" J/30 breaker sizes and labels, that people could update with their specific desires. Assuming people select standard available breaker sizes and labels you already have, is there any charge for that customizing? (As long as the labels requested are part of our standard label library (3,000 labels+) and the breaker amperages are within our capabilities there should be no cost for this type customization.)
8. I will make a cardboard mockup and simulate the hinge position to see how this fits on my boat. I will take pictures and post on the J/30 forum. (Would like to know your feedback. Hinge Left or Right also an option if easier.)

Generic Model 2206 Panel shown below
[Linked Image]
Posted By: Rhapsody #348

Mockup: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 09/23/12 11:33 PM

I created a full scale mockup using the Model 2206 panel dimensions and did some trial fits on Rhapsody. Here are some things I discovered.

1. The hinge is best placed on the bottom or right side. The existing harness will not rotate easily with a left side hinge. My personal preference is to put the hinge on the bottom as I think that will be easiest to do any maintenance work.
2. On the stock J/30 with no modifications, there is no problem fitting the panel. On Rhapsody where I mounted a 110VAC outlet, shore power breaker and 12VDC outlet, I'll probably need to move some of the items I mounted.
3. There is adequate clearance for the panel height so the Nav table slider molded edge will clear the bottom of the panel.

For Rhapsody, If this panel were used I would either take out the old wood panel and cut a new one, or use something like starboard over the existing wood panel and move items so the 2206 panel could fit.

Here is the mockup and some descriptions (click on pics for higher resolution):
2206 Panel with hinge on bottom showing left/right clearance.
[Linked Image]

2206 Panel showing hinge clearance on bottom so it clears the sliding nav table top.
[Linked Image]

2206 Panel showing hinge opened and existing cutout that will need to be expanded to accommodate expanded dimensions.
[Linked Image]

2206 Panel showing interference with other added items on Rhapsody.
[Linked Image]

Original Panel shown for reference
[Linked Image]

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Posted By: Rhapsody #348

Draft Specification: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 09/24/12 10:40 PM

I have created a draft specification for the DC Electrical Panel Replacement. It is attached in the Word file and pasted as text below. Please provide comments and recommendations.

1.0 Introduction: This document provides the specifications and parameters for a DC distribution panel as a replacement for the original equipment supplied with the J/30 Sailboat. The replacement panel is intended to provide the necessary isolation and circuit protection for original J/30 load requirements, and provide additional circuits for equipment that owners may have installed. The replacement panel is also intended to provide measurement capability for voltage and current.

2.0 Background: Information provided by J/30 owners revealed at least two different types of DC panels were supplied throughout J/30 production between 1979 and 1986. Older style panels were manufactured by Lorco and contained twelve toggle switches and twelve 3AG panel mounted fuse sockets with screw style caps. The panel measured 8.5" wide by 8" high. Some newer boats used a similar panel that measured 10" high by 6.325" wide. Additionally, some J/30 owners reported having a DC voltmeter mounted near the battery with a selector switch to monitor either battery. Not all J/30s were equipped with this meter.

3.0 Reference Documents: The following documents referenced in this document shall apply to the extent referenced herein.

3.1 Underwriters Laboratory specification UL-1077 - Supplementary Protectors for Use in Electrical Equipment

3.2 American Boat and Yacht Council (ABYC) Standard E-11 AC & DC Electrical Systems on Boats

4.0 Requirements: The requirements specified below shall be met for the replacement 12 volt DC electrical panel.

4.1 Electrical Requirements: The DC Panel shall utilize hydraulic/magnetic trip-free circuit breakers that meet the requirements of UL-1077 and ABYC 11.10.1.5.

4.1.1 Main Breaker: The DC Panel shall have a single 50 amp circuit breaker with a 3000 amp interrupt rating that isolates the branch breakers.

4.1.2 Branch Breakers: The DC Panel shall have twelve branch circuit breakers. The breakers shall be available in the following ratings and may be specified individually at the time of order: 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 40 or 50 amps.

4.1.3 Bus Bars: The DC Panel shall have separate tin plated DC Negative Bus and DC Grounding Bus bars. The DC Negative bus bar is intended to be the DC return path for all loads. The DC Grounding Bus is not intended to be the load path, but will be connected to the DC Negative Bus. The bus bars shall have sufficient capacity for attaching the return path for each DC branch and the ground for each DC branch.

4.1.4 Multimeter: The DC Panel shall have a single splash proof panel mounted DC digital multimeter with the following attributes:
&#149; Displays current in 0.1 Amp increments for -99.9 to +500 amp range, 1.0 Amp increments for -100 to -500 amp range with current monitored by installing a shunt supplied with the DC Panel on the negative side near the battery. This shunt is connected to the meter via 16 AWG twisted pair to minimize noise. The shunt shall be sized to match the desired current range with the multimeter sensitivity.

&#149; Accuracy +/-0.5% corresponding to +/-1 least digit of resolution

&#149; Four digits composted of seven segment displays with decimal point available to the right of each digit. Digits sized at 9/16" tall.

&#149; Illuminated indicators that display Voltage (V) or Current (A) modes.

&#149; Displays voltage from 0 to 60 Volts in 0.01 Volt increments

&#149; Input 8 to 50 VDC to power meter with a maximum power consumption of 1.0 watt and standby power consumption of less than or equal to 0.15 watts

&#149; Provides separate voltage and current terminals with a menu that allows selection between current and voltage.

&#149; Menu selectable high and low voltage with audio and visual alarms

&#149; Three levels of display brightness with a programmable sleep mode to blank display for power conservation

4.1.5 Voltage Selector Switch: A three position switch shall be provided to select the DC voltage monitor point for the Multimeter. The points to be monitored include Battery 1, Battery 2 and DC Panel Bus. Connection to the DC Panel Bus shall be internal to the panel. Connection to the switch for Battery 1 and Battery 2 shall be via screw terminals using external 16 AWG wire fused near the battery and provided by the installer.

4.1.5: Panel Illumination: The panel shall have back lighting that is powered from the load side of the main breaker with the illumination load for all back lights less than 90 milliamps. The back lighting is intended to illuminate circuit breaker labels. LED indicators shall be provided next to each circuit breaker that illuminate when the respective breaker is closed.

4.2 Mechanical Requirements: The DC Panel shall be 11" wide, 8.25" high and extend no more than 3.5" behind the panel. The panel shall be fabricated from 0.125" corrosion resistant aluminum. All component mounting hardware and the panel mounting hardware shall be countersunk resulting in a flush surface.

4.2.1 Hinge: The panel shall be configured with a hinge that extends along the bottom edge of the panel, allowing the panel to swing down for service. The hinge shall be mounted with recessed hardware so the panel covers the hinge when closed. The hinge shall be recessed into the back side of the panel so the entire assembly may be mounted flush.

4.2.2 Finish: The panel shall be painted black with a two part polyurethane finish. A 0.125" white accent line shall be painted around the outer edge with radiused corners. White lettering shall be painted on the panel as follows:

&#149; 12 Volts DC - Above left row of Circuit Breakers

&#149; Battery 1, DC Bus, Battery 2 - adjacent to voltage selector switch and aligned to switch positions

&#149; J/30 - using "Souvenir" truetype font with bold & italic attributes and 0.5" high letters. The logo shall be centered along the bottom section, interrupting the solid white line with a 0.25" gap on either side to separate from the white line.

4.2.3 Component locations: The DC Panel shall be configured with two columns of circuit breakers. The top left breaker shall be the main breaker. Below this shall be seven branch breakers. The right column shall have the multimeter and voltage selector switch mounted at the top. Below these components shall be five branch breakers.

4.2.4 Circuit Breaker Selection & Labels: Circuit breaker labels shall be replaceable polycarbonate material with black opaque background and translucent letters that permit the backlight to illuminate the text. The main breaker shall be labeled Main 50 AMPS. Branch breaker labels shall be selectable from standard supplier offerings for each order. Branch breakers may be specified at time of order per paragraph 4.1.2.

4.3 Wiring: The DC Panel shall be delivered with all internal panel connections wired. All external connections for supply, load, current sense and battery voltage sense shall have screw terminals to accommodate properly sized wire per ABYC E- 11.16.1.2.2 and connections per ABYC E-11.16.4.1.11 supplied by the installer.


Attached File
Posted By: Georges

Re: Draft Specification: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 09/29/12 04:05 PM

Bill,
If I was to change my pannel I would go for it - but I spent a decent amount of time last year redoing my circuitry... I do not see investing in it in for the short term,

I love the multimeter proposal.

One question: what does the main branch breaker isolates/protect from?
Posted By: Rhapsody #348

Re: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 10/02/12 12:44 AM

Georges,

The main breaker is described in ABYC E-11. It also allows easy isolation of the branch circuits and multimeter at the panel.

11.12.1.6. Panelboards and Switchboards - A tripfree circuit breaker or a fuse shall be installed at the source of power for panelboards and switchboards, and shall not exceed 100 percent of the load capacity of that panel, or 100 percent of the current carrying capacity of the feeders.

EXCEPTION: The trip-free circuit breaker or fuse at the source of power may be rated at up to 150 percent of the conductor ampacity if there is a submain circuit breaker or fuse in the panelboard or switchboard that is rated at no more than 100 percent of the load capacity, or the feeder ampacity, whichever is less.

[Linked Image]



Description: AYBC E-11 Excerpt
Attached File
AYBC_E-11.pdf  (1271 downloads)

Description: DC Panel Main Breaker
Attached File
fig16.jpg  (6345 downloads)
Posted By: Conundrum

Re: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 10/02/12 05:00 AM

I have been following this discussion with interest but I have no troubles now, and without a need I would not replace the panel for the breakers and meters.
Just so you know.

Don
Posted By: PaneltronicsWill

Re: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 10/15/12 05:08 PM

General purpose video on adding a 120VAC panel (Panel# 9972313) with 30 amp Shore Main

Posted By: Rhapsody #348

Rev 1 Spec: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 10/31/12 03:18 AM

The attached procurement specification has been reformatted and incorporates comments received. I am waiting for final comments and drawings from Paneltronics, then will obtain final review comments before considering the document final.

Edit: Fixed file that didn't upload properly

Attached File
Posted By: Rhapsody #348

Re: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 11/01/12 10:49 PM

I had a discussion with William Montes today about the voltage selector switch and the hinge. The switch will be a rotary type. The hinge dimensions have been specified so that mounting tolerances are specified between the panel and the mounting surface.

The specification has been updated to reflect the changes. See attached revision 2.

Attached File
Posted By: Cap'n Vic

Re: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 11/04/12 01:40 PM

just as a reminder ... panel replacements have nothing to do with measurement for OD events?
Posted By: Rhapsody #348

Re: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 11/04/12 02:01 PM

Vic - that is correct, as long as you meet the requirement of permanently installed navigation lights in working order under rule 6.4. You also need two batteries inferred by rule 5.13.1.
Posted By: Rhapsody #348

DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 11/06/12 04:40 AM

Attached is a wiring diagram that will be included with the installation guidelines showing the DC connections near the batteries. This is where most of the wiring will change when the replacement DC panel is installed. The installation guidelines will provide information on the required wire sizes.

Click on the graphic to download a PDF file for printing.

[Linked Image]

Attached File
Attached File
J30 DC Wiring near Batteries.jpg  (18040 downloads)
Posted By: jhoskins

Re: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 11/06/12 02:47 PM

Thanks Bill. Your diagram is a big help!
Posted By: Rhapsody #348

Initial Order: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 11/10/12 02:55 PM

We are now ready to place the initial order for 3 panels. The attached specification revision 3 includes some updates for the J/30 logo, mounting screws, and adds a qualified supplier section. I've also attached an Excel file that allows selection of standard circuit breaker ratings and labels so the panel can be customized for each boat.

J/Boats has authorized Paneltronics to silk screen the J/30 logo on the panels.

I plan on placing my order early next week and have contacted the other two who indicated they wanted a panel. Those folks can post here if they desire.

Once Paneltronics delivers the initial production run, I will update the specification to include the final schematics, panel artwork, and any minor wording revisions to reflect the as-built configuration. This will then be added to the J/30 website files, and Paneltronics will be added to the Equipment Suppliers web page.

Attached File
Breaker_Configurator.xlsx  (788 downloads)
Attached File
Posted By: Jeffrey S. Moore

Re: Initial Order: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 11/12/12 12:37 AM

Bill,
The amount of effort and detail applied to this DC panel, along with your restoration and maintenance documentation for Rhapsody is outstanding. Thank you for the detail and effort.

I will be purchasing the DC panel replacement for my J30, hull #351.

Jeff Moore
Roo
Posted By: Rhapsody #348

Re: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 11/18/12 05:11 AM

I've updated the wiring diagram for the area near the battery. It is saved in pdf format and an image file. The wiring shown is now complete on Rhapsody, except for the shunt used for the ammeter, and connections to the panel, since it hasn't arrived yet.

This will be included in the installation procedure I am writing.

Click on the image file to download the pdf document.
[Linked Image]

Attached File
Rhapsody-DC-Wiring.pdf  (581 downloads)
Attached File
Rhapsody-DC-Wiring.png  (6888 downloads)
Posted By: sonskyn

Re: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 11/19/12 10:36 AM

Bill, following your process is going to be very helpful in doing this project. Are you planning on removing the existing plywood panel in its entirety and install a new removable panel that will allow easy access to wiring?
Posted By: Rhapsody #348

Re: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 11/19/12 12:07 PM

Koos,

I am going to make a panel from 1/4" Starboard that will go over the plywood. This is because I mounted some other items on the plywood panel that prevent me from just expanding the cutout and mounting the replacement panel. If that was possible, it would be the preferred method. I made a mockup of the useable area yesterday and am doing a trial layout at home with the various items I have (DC Panel, 115VAC outlet, shorepower breaker, two 12V utility outlets, and battery charger). Once I'm ok with the layout, I'll cut the Starboard, take it to the boat and use a sawzall to cut where I need in the plywood.
Posted By: sonskyn

Re: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 11/20/12 11:41 AM

Bill, will the starboard cover the entire wood panel? I am thinking of cutting away part of the shelf and extend the panel upwards and have vhf, gps, stereo, etc all flush mounted, the stuff tucked under the shelf as always annoyed me a bit,
Posted By: Rhapsody #348

Re: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 11/20/12 12:03 PM

Koos,

I'm only covering a section aft of the cutout extending for 19". There is no reason the entire wood panel could not be covered if you want to flush mount equipment. Again, If you wanted to, you could disassemble the cabinet work there and cut a new panel from wood if you wanted to match it. For me, using Starboard as a cover is an easier approach that meets my needs.
Posted By: Rhapsody #348

Draft Installation Procedure: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 11/22/12 05:47 AM

I've made good progress on the installation procedure. This is work in process. I plan on adding a summary that will flow easier, but will leave the detailed description so people can understand the entire procedure. I also need to make sure everything is correct, once my panel arrives.

I need to take some more pictures to help make this clear for anyone.

Please provide any feed back comments.

Attached File
Posted By: PaneltronicsWill

Re: Initial Order: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 11/29/12 04:40 PM

Hello all - I wanted to let you know that we will begin the production process of the first few DC panels within the next couple of days. If there is anyone with an interest in the DC panel upgrade please let me know within this week. As we will be cutting the panel flats this week and it would be logical to cut as many flats as possible in one shot rather than having to re-setup the equipment. If you have any questions please give me a call.

Thank you,

William Montes
PANELTRONICS
Account Manager
1-800-367-2635 xt. 219
305-824-0805 fax
www.paneltronics.com

Best wishes for fair winds!
Posted By: Bob Rutsch

Re: Initial Order: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 12/13/12 05:57 PM

Thanks to Bill the specs and guide. It makes sense to put the electric bilge pump on a separate circuit to allow auto/off/manual with the battery switch off. That frees up room on my panel for a 12 V Outlet (probably a cigarette lighter style receptacle) and an empty Accessory. Prefer to keep the KVH Sailcomp and Nav/Instruments separate but currently have no fixed GPS, VHF or stereo.

Paneltronics sells labels for $1 each but $25 minimum order. Trying to project a few spares to order now for future changes. The full list of 2900+ is in the Excel 'Breaker Configurator' above. Any other suggestions in addition to those listed below?

1 RUNNING LIGHTS
2 STEAMING LIGHT
3 WINDEX
4 SPREADER LIGHTS
5 12 VOLT OUTLET
6 ACCESSORY
7 CABIN LIGHTS

8 VHF/STEREO
9 NAVIGATION INSTRUMENTS
10 FLUXGATE COMPASS
11 GPS
12 AUTO HELM

Spare labels:
COMPUTER
ELECTRONICS
MACERATOR PUMP
RADAR/CHART PLOTTER
RED NIGHT LIGHTS
WATER PRESSURE
Posted By: Rhapsody #348

Silk Screen: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 01/07/13 09:31 PM

A quick status update on the DC Panel as of 7 Jan 2013. William Montes just sent me a photo of the blank panel that has been silk screened with the J/30 logo. The pilot panel production run should start assembly in the next week.

[Linked Image]

Attached File
dc-panel-silk-screened.jpg  (3673 downloads)
Posted By: Rhapsody #348

Panel Arrived: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 01/23/13 04:51 AM

The new DC Electrical Panel was on my door step when I arrived home tonight. It looks very nice. There are no instructions in the box, so I'll create the documentation for the class to install.

The first thing I noticed was the current shunt had been wired on the panel and held in place with Ty-wraps on the harness. It was the intention that the shunt be mounted by the battery so that battery charge and discharge would be sensed.
[Linked Image]

In order to accommodate that, I removed the shunt by cutting the ty-wraps and disconnecting the terminals. The picture below shows the wiring side of the panel with the shunt removed and labels added on the edge of the circuit breakers.
[Linked Image]

Once the shunt was removed, I connected a power supply and tested the panel on the bench. The meter has a low voltage alarm that can be set. I set it at 11 volts and slowly lowered the voltage. The alarm sounded a few seconds after the voltage dropped below 11 volts. The delay is a good thing as the alarm won't sound spuriously due to quick voltage transients.
[Linked Image]

After bench testing the supply, I created labels on the back side of the panel to make wiring on the boat easier. This will also make troubleshooting easier in the future. Note the -12V and Ground bus bars.
[Linked Image]


I'll be working over the next couple weeks to clean up documentation so people have something to use as a reference for installation.
Posted By: sonskyn

Re: Panel Arrived: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 01/23/13 10:55 AM

Bill, the panel does look nice but I am slightly annoyed that the label fonts are not consistent, some are in regular and some in bold font.
I look forward to the rest of the installation guidelines, much needed in my case.
Thank you for all your effort in getting this together, - Koos
Posted By: Bob Rutsch

Re: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 01/24/13 06:52 PM

Opened mine, I thought the label fonts were fine and they included the spares requested. There is a wiring guide to standard Paneltronics 2206 on which this is based, but without guidance from the Class this would be a daunting project.

Received a gift of a good wire stripper and heat gun. Bill previously recommended Compass Marine, which has advice on crimpers/crimping and labeling using clear heat shrink tubing.
Posted By: Rhapsody #348

Spec Rev 4: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 02/01/13 04:54 AM

I have updated the specification based on the pilot production model. There are a few items that will be cleaned up. Paneltronics will be updating the schematic, and we'll have updated mechanical outline drawings.

One item to note is I inserted Figure 2 which is a hand sketch of the cutout that needs to be made to mount the panel (also attached as a PDF file). This should help those that want to play with potential options for where to locate the panel in the boat.

I will be updating the installation procedure over the next few weeks too.

Edit 2/1/2013: I touched up and rescanned the cutout drawing since the edges were cut off.

Attached File
Attached File
J30 DC Panel Cutout.pdf  (349 downloads)
Posted By: Rhapsody #348

Hinge Modification: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 02/10/13 01:45 AM

I decided rather than having the hinge only open 90 degrees and complicate the cutout, I would modify the hinge so it closed flush.

The hinge was removed from the panel and marked with tape to show the areas that needed to be notched so it could fold flat and not interfere with the components on the panel. The hinge was placed in a vice and a Dremel tool cutoff wheel used to cut the notches out. After cutting the notches, the rough edges were filed and corners rounded. This photo shows the work in process to notch the hinge.

[Linked Image]

After the notches were cut, the hinge fit was checked on the panel. The hinge was again removed and three holes 3/16" diameter were drilled that will be used to mount the hinge to the wood panel on the boat. These hole were countersunk so that they can be mounted flush when the hinge is closed. Below shows the hinge mounted on the panel, folded showing the relief area that allows the hinge to sit flat.

[Linked Image]

I traced the modified hinge and created a template others can use for modification, and for drill pilot holes to mount the hinge in the boat. This is in the PDF file attached.

Oh - all this happened this afternoon when we got power back from the blizzard. We have 20" of snow and were without power from midnight until 4 this afternoon. My plans to work on the boat this weekend were side tracked.

Attached File
hinge-modification.pdf  (391 downloads)
Attached File
hinge-dremel-tool-cut.jpg  (3320 downloads)
Attached File
hinge-fit-on-panel.jpg  (3755 downloads)
Posted By: Rhapsody #348

Done!: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 03/04/13 02:46 AM

The installation is complete. It looks and works great. I described the installation on my blog, and will complete the installation procedure soon.

Here is the blog link for the install entry, and a couple of teaser photos below.

Panel showing discharge current:
[Linked Image]

Same load showing charging current with battery charger on:
[Linked Image]
Posted By: PaneltronicsWill

Re: Done!: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 09/11/13 02:08 PM

Hello J30 Owners! This is Paneltronics Will inviting you to attend the IBEX exhibition & conference on September 17-19, 2013 at the Kentucky Exposition Center - Louisville, Kentucky

Come visit our booth #1915

* POWER DISTRIBUTION PANELS
* INSTRUMENT PANELS
* SWITCH AND FUSE PANELS
* ENCLOSURE ASSEMBLIES

Look forward to seeing you there.

Happy Sailing!

William Montes
Account Manager

PANELTRONICS, INC
11960 NW 87th Court
Hialeah Gardens, FL 33018
Tel: 305-823-9777 Ext: 219
Fax: 305-824-0805
william.montes@paneltronics.com
www.paneltronics.com


Posted By: Rhapsody #348

Updated Part Number: DC Electrical Panel Replacement - 10/22/16 12:11 AM

This post is to let everyone know that the Paneltronics part number has been updated to W1208432/1. The updated Procurement specification may be found by going to the menu, mouse over "Market" and click on "Equipment Suppliers". Once on this page scroll down until you see the "Electrical Panel".

There you will see contact information for Paneltronics and a link to the updated procurement specification. The part number has also been updated on the Equipment Supplier's page.

William Montes no longer works at Paneltronics. The updated information was provided by Pedro Pelaez, Jr., Vice President. Paneltronics will quote price and delivery for this panel when contacted.
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