J/30 Class Association Forums J/30 Forum The Boat, Sails and Equipment Tiller pilot

I recently purchased a Simrad tillerpilot for installation on my 1984 J-30 (you know, the version with cockpit coamings), and am about to install. Does anybody have any special advice on tillerpilot installation in general, or about the Simrad in particular? Will I need any special parts/extenders for installation? Any wisdom would be much appreciated.

I installed an Autohelm 4000. They say the mount should be 18" forward of the pintles. If I did it again, I'd be tempted to mount it further forward so the load on the motor would be less. The J30 with its unbalanced rudder loads up in a hurry. I might be tempted to call their tech support for their opinion.

Mine is 36" up the tiller. Works fine, unless there is significant helm; then there's not enough throw in the mechanism.

I just installed a navigo tp300(this is the autopilots 3rd boat) on Jezabelle and navigo I thought recommended 12 inches from the pintles. On my 1979 J-30 the lazarette on the starboard side limits positioning the pin more than about eight inches from the pintles.(I thought simrad bought out navigo a few years ago).
I have only tried it out up to 11 knots of apparent wind and it worked flawlessly. I even tried the tack button which is "interesting". Having the pilot this close to the pintle allows the pilot to be very effective at 'hard to lee" and allows me to open the lazarette to start the engine.

I'm contemplating getting a RayMarine ST4000+ Is this the same as the Autohelm 4000? Should it be mounted higher up on the tiller? Is it strong enough, or should I shell out the $$$ for their Grand Prix version?

Thanks,

Ryan Pierce, #337
rdpierce@pobox.com

I have a new cockpit version (1985) and an autohelm 2000. The pin is about 10 inches from the pintles. The butt end of the pilot mounts on a teak block bolted to the top of the transom on the port side just about 3-4" outboard of the port scupper vent, so the autopilot shaft works the tiller at a slight angle when the rudder is centered. Access was easy to the wiring through the big locker in the cockpit. The pilot power outlet and electronic compass mount aft and below the locker compartment hatch - keeping it from being kicked accidentally as much as possible.

I've never tried it out in in real heavy stuff, but had it going close-hauled under power and mainsail in 15-20 knots and some chop and it worked just fine.

FYI, I didn't install it, it came this way with the boat.

I just installed a Raymarine ST2000 autopilot on my boat, hull # 352. I would be happy to send along digital photos if anyone is considering mounting this unit.

Bob Rude
Mmmmm
3352

I would like to see the photos

I installed a tp30 on my 1984, and put it at the recommended distance from the pintles. I needed a 1" push rod extension, and the big tiller bracket. It does get loaded up fast, so moving it a few inches further out might be a good idea.

LChristy:

Send me your e-mail address and I'll shoot you the photos.

Bob Rude
"goodreader@cox.net

Does anyone know what extention length and mounting accessories are needed to mount the Simrad TP22 on an Old Style (1982) J/30?

I've decided to go full-auto and am 4 hours from the boat!

Thanks - Dan

My autohelm ST1000+ shows his limit on the beam as soon it is not flat water. Nothing new but wondering if anyone has an experience with the autohelm smartpilot X5?
Is it worth the upgrade?

I've had the Raymarine X5 on my boat for 3 years now and am very happy with it. when it limits out it usually means you should have put in a reef already.

I replaced my Autohelm ST1000+ 3 years ago with the Raymarine X5, and got the remote. This is a great system.

1. The X5 is much stronger and has no problem keeping up with the sail trim where the ST1000 would loose the ability to maintain course.

2. The X5 has it's own compass with roll and pitch sensors. It is amazing how well this works down wind with following seas. It steers a straighter course than I can!

3. If you get the remote, there is no need to mount the head unit topside (e.g. no need to drill a separate hole). I built a small box out of "Starboard" and mounted the display head and remote receiver on it, then screwed it next to the X5 course computer below decks.

4. I've networked this with my TackTick system and Garmin GPS so I can steer by relative wind angle, or GPS waypoints. Here is a link to the schematics.

Here is some stuff I didn't like.

• The connectors are different - means drilling another hole.
• The length is different so it means you need to drill another hole for mounting (on Rhapsody that is on the stbd lazarette surface).

Precious feedback. Thanks a zillion fellows!

I have the ST2000+ who I refer to as "Raytard". While he is indispensable for long motoring deliveries and putting up sails, I have only been half satisfied with his performance steering to the wind (networked to my ST60+). He is pretty good upwind but downwind I find he just goes stupid every once and a while and allows the boat to just keep turning even when there is no windshift. He has gone a full 90 degrees off the set wind angle.

I do think I need to play with the calibration settings more and I haven't tested him on a reach but I don't know if he can handle it.

I think he might be drinking when I am not looking.

I have two Raymarine ST2000+ tiller pilots, the first broke one day before the expiration date of the two year warranty. I sent it for repairs and bought a replacement as I did not want to wait 8 weeks for repairs. The replacement bought August 6, 2011 died today. Both warranties run into 2014 so I should have at least one working tiller pilot for the foreseeable future. Performance is fine close hauled up to 15 knots apparent. Doesn't do well on other angles of sail. Becomes totally useless in rough weather. For the time being I have adjusted my expectations to match the capabilities of the ST2000+ but am looking at better options.

I have a Raymarine S1G. Just did the solo Chicago to Mac with it and no problems. Actually have done 3 Solo Macs with it. Going through all the configs is well worth it.

Yes heavy air is a problem, but it did great steering on wind vane seeting for me upwind and down. Reaching on windvane doesnt seem to work that well.

BTW 2 J30's completed the Solo Macs (Chicago and Port Huron) this year. My Dog Bob from Georgian Bay did it as well.

A followup on my new raymarine SP X-5. Installation was easy. Did not get a chance to sail in really challenging condition, but already an issue:
The autopilot seems to loose progressively its notion of the rudder position. After 5-10 mn in condition with moderate weather helm:
1. Rudder display shows max Starb. or Port.
2. Pilot stops correcting and after one (two?) minute in that state issues a beep stating it can not helm...

And all this while the helm is mostly centered... ;-) toggling to standby and back to auto reinit the rudder display and out the pilot back work for the next 10 mn... still not good...

E-mailed Raymarine 2 days ago. still waiting for an answer. will followup with their answer - but any feedback is more than welcome...
Cheers,

Georges

Did you try going through the calibration process again? Is it possible that you didn't follow the calibration instructions exactly? Where did you mount the ends of the pilot arm?

I did not yet.... that would be my next step - although it went rather smoothly, and this is really the only issue. I was thinking also the auto learning...
I will get there...

What I am really puzzled with is what seems to be the design decision in the control to stop acting on the rudder, not based on the tiller ability to move - nor position (easy to get on a tiller), but on a purely derived rudder position... but I will still try.

Rudder under the helm... 90 degrees and all that stuff.
Thanks,

Georges,

I had issues on my X5 initially until after the running the calibration procedure. It really should be done. The calibration puts the boat through a series of maneuvers and records the dynamic response of the boat. This is stored in the X5 course computer so the proper rudder commands are provided based on the sailing conditions. Once calibrated it worked very well. As I have posted in other threads, the response with a spinnaker down wind in following seas off the quarter is better than I can do manually, and the autohelm doesn't fatigue. The roll & pitch sensors are pretty amazing. I found that mounting the X5 compass on the bulkhead just aft of the mast at waterline level works very well.

You'll want to do the calibration in smooth water for the best results.

Thanks Bill,

So after 3 weeks of constant use, the max rudder issue with my X5 vanished. The rudder indication itself does not show up anymore on my 6002 display either.
I did not redo the calibration - did not have to :-) It just seems that a few weeks of intensive use in various condition made the autopilot learned the boat...

I am impressed and happy with it. And yes it often do much better than I do - even up wind in slightly off chop... when you are not 200% focus.

I also like how it reacts and learn quickly of changes to boats tuning - when reefing and even smaller one when adjusting the sails.

A response setting of 2 does an excellent job (I installed the compass at the same place than you did - not too far from CG and usual CoB and nicely protected from rogue boots) - without draining the battery.
Thanks all for your feedback,

have been following this threat with interest......... just acquired an X5 with P7 control head after having gone through two ST2000+'s in three years with one constantly in the shop for repairs. I suspect the vibration from the yanmar destroys the built-in ST2000+ fluxgate compass over time. I am hoping to have better luck with the new system and may even consider mounting the course computer on an anti vibration pad of some sort.

Koos - I mounted the X5 course computer inside on the molded cabin locker wall above the stbd quarter berth. I built a small box using Star Board and mounted it next to the course computer. The box holds both the display head and the receiver for the remote. It faces forward so you can see it from the nav station. I figured I didn't need another hole externally for the display if I used the remote. I have not seen any vibration issues with it, then again my Yanmar runs smoothly - for a 2 cylinder engine

Bill, the vibration is probably the worst on the cockpit locker, I do have the remote but have not figured out what to do with the control head, also do not want to cut holes in bulkheads, see you around Conanicut Island on Sunday.

Koos - I'll get some pictures Friday on what I did to mount the X5 components below decks, without cutting holes in the bulkheads. See you on the water Sunday!

Foot Loose has a deck console - which I am still considering to remove - but at least that helps regarding bulkhead holes...
The SP X-5 remote was a bit pricy for me ($400+) and it is too bad it can not fully act as display unit/control head. I will consider it though, prior adding holes in my bulkhead, next year :-)

Below are 3 pictures that show how the X5 is installed on Rhapsody. I built an enclosure out of "Starboard" and used it to mount the display head and the remote receiver.

The pictures below show the complete installation on Rhapsody.

Thank you Bill, this is very helpful, did you have to make any modification to the pin and socket on the tiller and cockpit locker? - Koos

Koos,

Unfortunately, the ram on the X5 is about an inch longer than the ST1000+ so I had to drill another hole in the cockpit locker to install the receptacle for the Autohelm. It is the same as the ST1000+. I strengthened it underneath with glass mat and epoxy. I have both the X5 and ST1000+ electrical connectors mounted by the engine control panel, and the receptacles on the cockpit locker so I can use the ST1000+ as a backup if needed. I keep both on the boat when cruising.

The pin I have on the rudder is fastened via a bent steel plate that allows the Autohelm to attach below the tiller curved section. This keeps the Autohelm horizontal and works for both the X5 and ST1000+ since they both have the same end fitting that slips over the pin.

Bill, what type of terminal block did you use for the 28awg wire?

Koos - I don't know where wire as small as 28awg wire is used. The X5 connections all terminate back the the X5 course computer that has its own terminal srtip. The Compass has the smallest wires, but runs directly from the compass in one length with no splices back to the course computer terminal strip.

I have used these Euro style terminal strips for other NMEA and power connections for instruments - you can get at Radio Shack

thanks Bill, Garmin reccommends 28awg to extend nema connections

A quick blast with a spray varnish keeps the terminals from corroding. Hard to find a clear spray as it usually has a red ting but its out there.

when choosing the new p70 control head keep in mind that a separately powered seatalk ng bacbone will be needed adding approx. $150 to cost

Koos - I guess that is ok if you stick with the proprietary Raymarine Seatalk NG instruments. For most applications on our boats, NMEA 0183 is sufficient for data rates. It is point to point rather than a bus, but there are enough I/O ports on the various instruments that permit interfacing everything I have. If a higher speed bus is needed, I would opt for something compatible with NMEA 2000 as a standard.

On Rhapsody I successfully integrate the following manufacturers equipment using NMEA 0183:

• TackTick Wireless to everything else (Via T122 TackTick to NMEA interface - on TackTick side it generates compass info, speed through water, wind direction & speed, depth and water temp. All is sent to NMEA and stuff on NEA side is sent to TackTick)
• Lowrance GPS (backup)
• Garmin GPS (Primary)
• Standard Horizon DSC Radio
• Raymarine X5 Autopilot (Primary)
• Autohelm ST1000+ Autopilot (Backup)
• Toshiba Netbook computer (backup chart plotter and data recorder)

Bill, I have Standard Horizon GX2150, Garmin GPSMAP640 , Tacktick wind/speed/depth/temp and Raymarine SPX-5 integrated, The reason for the Seatalk-ng backbone is because the SPX-5 course computer does not supply power to the P-70 control head through the Seatalk-ng port. I first had the P-70 connected so that it got power from the Raymarine S100 remote but that didn't make sense to me because it meant the remote was directly connected to both the course SPX-5 course computer via Seatalk and the P-70 via a Seatalk/Seatalk-ng adapter cable. Raymarine Technical Support recommended the Seatalk-ng backbone.

Koos - I don't understand why the connection to the remote wouldn't work. The Seatalk connection from the X-5 Course Computer supplies power to the S100 remote via SeaTalk. You can then power the P-70 using the S100 via Seatalk. Alternately, you can clip the Seatalk connector off the cable from the P-70 and hardwire it to one of the two Seatalk 3-terminal sets on the terminal board of the X-5 course computer.

It baffles me that Raymarine would make the Seatalk ng connection on the X-5 not have power included for the P-70 display, particularly for a single interface connection. I think the $150 you need to spend to power a Seatalk ng backbone is a rip off.

The P-70 is getting power from the S100. The P-70 is hardwired to the course computer via seatalk-ng. The autopilot ram is responding to the control head, haven't tried the remote. If it works as is I will not ask why and abandon the backbone.