J/30 Class Association Forums J/30 Forum The Boat, Sails and Equipment concerns with older j30

Thanks for the advice folks. Yes the cruising sails have slugs for both the mast and boom and the 140% is designed for the furler. These will definitely be my cruising set-up for a while. Besides I'd feel guilty having the beautiful North Sails kevlar 163% up when not racing.

[This message has been edited by dlabrosse (edited 10-22-2007).]

Actually if you are extended cruising, the 163 isn't a bad sail to have if you are trying to cover distance. I use a very "mature" 163 for cruising - well past its useful race life. The downside is when the wind starts to build, there isn't a lot of rail meat onboard. I had to put my daughter on the helm while I went forward to change to the #3. She wasn't a happy camper....

The #1 is good to keep speed for a broad reach without putting up a spinnaker. We did some 50 mile days cruising this summer.

A dodger is highly recommended for comfort while cruising too. Keeps you dry from spray if it is rough, can provide some limited shade, and allows you to keep the companionway open for a breeze while preventing rain / dew from entering the cabin.

Well the survey went well today. Yes there is a wet area by the starboard chainplate about 8-9 inches across and another oblong wet area starboard just in front of where the cabin top starts rising from the outside deck. The surveyor told me that these areas were not worth fixing as there are no structural implications. I will keep an eye on them, rebed the chainplates with 4200 and if they get worse will have them addressed.

The bottom and rudder are clean! No blisters. Very fair, recently expoxied and covered with VC-Offshore. Basically there is nothing wrong with the boat.

The one thing that bothers me is that the serial number is no longer visible. The boat had been painted at some point in the past and the hull number must have been covered over in paint prep. Anyone know of a red boat sold out of Seattle several years ago? It was registered with the Canadian Ship's Registry in February of 2004 with the name 'Legend'.

The engine inspection will happen tomorrow morning at 9am

Good deal - I'm glad to hear the boat is sound. I'm surprised the surveyor said to do nothing on the wet spots. Does the area flex underfoot? If so, the core is not just wet, it's rotten and will have to be replaced.

Also, the water came from somewhere - you need to identify the source and fix it. The chainplate is easy to identify, but what about the foredeck? The hatch?

Don't use 4200 for your chainplates! It's way too strong. 4200 and 5200 are polyurethanes, which means they are primarily adhesives. You want something on your chainplates that will flex with the boats motion, but that can also be removed for maintenance or renewal. Just because 4200 will be very hard to remove next year (or in five years...) doesn't mean that it is still adequately sealing the chainplates.

Instead, use a polysulphide type sealant, such as LifeSeal, LifeCalk, or Sikaflex.

The HIN will be available on any official doc related to the boat: CG registration, state registration, and insurance will all have the HIN. I'm sure the same applies in Canada.

The wet spots do not flex underfoot. The foredeck spot was a void from original construction that eventually broke down and leaked into the core.

The HIN does not appear in the records that we have. The title, insurance documents and the Canadian Ship's registry do not list the serial number. I'm assuming that it was obliterated before being brought to and registered in Canada. I would have to chase the paper trail back to Seattle to try and find it.

Subsequent to yesterday's mechanical inspection, the diesel requires about $1,000 worth of work. I'm thinking about splitting the bill with the current owner. Not sure if he'll go for it but it does not hurt to ask. The raw water system needs a bunch of work (new belt, pulley, impeller). It also needs a new alternator belt, zincs, oil and temperature alarms and a couple of new guages. The head gasket needs to be replaced and some touch-up paint work is required to the head gasket area. The idle needs to be adjusted. The two batteries also require replacement.

I'm of two minds here. On one hand I want all the work to be done professionally and not have to worry about it. On the other hand I think that alot of this I could do on my own. So I could save a bunch of money by getting the pros to do the head gasket and paint work and I could do the belts, pulley alarms and guages myself with the help of my aircraft mechanic friend.

Thoughts?

[This message has been edited by dlabrosse (edited 10-24-2007).]

If you are mechanically inclined, do the work yourself. Check out my engine rebuild and related maintenance site: http://j30rhapsody348.blogspot.com/p/rhapsody-j30-348-yanmar-2gm-rebuild.html

Parts are readily available for the engine. The one time investment in the Yanmar service manual is worth its weight in gold. Electrical work with harnesses and connectors is fairly simple, assuming you are not trying to manually reterminate old connector plugs on a harness. The generic Yanmar schematics are accurate and easy to read.

If you can negotiate with the seller on some of the items needed to be done, it may help defray the bill.

Subsequent discussions with the company who performed the work has revealed that the raw water problems might indicate that the Yanmar 2QM is nearing the end of its serviceable life. Re-powering within 3 years is not really within my budget so this might break the deal. This news makes me feel sick to my stomach because the rest of the boat is solid.

The representative from the mechanic's company figures there would be a slightly better than 50/50 chance on a rebuild. He thinks the raw water system's problems are due to corrosion and that there may or may not be enough material left to rebuild on. I'm already $1000 into this boat due to inspections and taxes. Is it worth spending another $600-700 to pull the head gasket and take a peak?

[This message has been edited by dlabrosse (edited 10-25-2007).]

Well you can pull the head in place without removing the engine. When I rebuilt Rhapsody's 2GM, the problem was scale built up in the water passages. The front cylinder was completely blocked in the head passages. I used a hammer and chisel to remove scale, Dremel tool to grind it out smooth, and then acid flushed with Vinegar. Again, if you have mechanical skills, you can save a lot of money to do the work. $600-700 to pull a head gasket could be reduced to > $100 for a gasket set if you did it yourself. The comment about "not enough material to rebuild on" is what worries me. I'd ask what components they are talking about, and why they drew that conclusion. I replaced the iron water bypath tube that was at the front of the 2GM because the nipple that held the hose to the water pump was deteriorated too badly when I rebuilt the engine - $36 for a new one.

Take it in perspective - what is the value of the boat, and what needs to be done to maintain/increase its value? You can spend money, or put in sweat equity. If you feel the cost/personal time is overwhelming for what you get, then make the decision to find another boat. Email me (link in header) if you want to be put in touch with other J/30s for sale. I know of 4 in the Southern New England area.

Bill

The current owner, being now aware of the problems you mention, will likely be willing to negotiate a significant price reduction rather than try to find another buyer. Also, surveyors will almost always present the worst possible situation so as to cover their butts. That being said, it is an older boat and my experience with Rauzer II #448 is there is always something that needs work and/or reconditioning.

DON'T LOSE HOPE !

It's a 20/25 year old boat, and all the rest of 'em are as well. They all will have issues.

Which issues do you want ? We all agree we don't want the core issues to be a major factor. Any possible engine issues are fixed easily enough. I have not heard of very many J30 repowers, perhaps none. That yanmar is a great ol' smoker. Talk to your jet wrench buddy about a head gasket (was the cause an impeller that wasn't replaced? Best case scenario - EZ fix, or was it the infamous mixing elbow problem). Go thru the engine archives here and learn about all the issues that everyone has had with these engines. Your engine's the same as all the other ones. Do you have a YANMAR mechanic talking to you telling you about a repower? That's the only strange part to the story.

Torreson.com on lake michigan knows em inside and out & you can talk to those guys by phone to ease your mind. Get a second opinon on whatever the engine issues may be (those belts will be a fun DIY intro for ya). The cool thing is that after you learn about all the issues the engine can have, and do the work yourself (it's a truly simple machine), that gives you great peace of mind at sea. I ONCE had the engine konk out on me (in the slip) & I knew right away that my recent oil & filter change was the culprit as I did not seat the gasket correctly and it bled air. The fix was easy. I think you want to keep after this boat since it's solid. Also, consider the price. At $30k, it should be the queen of the fleet in perfect shape in every way with good sails too. Discount for all the engine work that it needs (& it doesn't have the "Zephyr-Benz Faget" voodoo sails? minus $3k) (oh it didnt win the BC NOODS? minus $1500 right there), but don't bail, just renogiate the price to reflect the engine issues, get the boat, then make it right. This seems like a good boat.