J/30 Class Association Forums J/30 Forum One Design Class Rules Proposed change in class rules for mainsail cloth materials

You can lobby your fleet captain in your District forum, but some postings elsewhere are relevant to all. I'll start with this :
Based on the complaints cropping up here, apparently not.

The proposed rule does not prohibit Cuben Fiber, carbon, or anything else sailmakers may dream up including North's 3Di. These materials are lighter, stretch less, and usually more expensive.

It also does not prohibit excessive reinforcement, heavy footlines, boltropes, or fittings intended to increase the weight of the sail. Depending on local PHRF restrictions, one could use an underweight mainsail for handicap, and then fill a Velcro pocket near the tack with corrector weight in order to meet the proposed class 'bag weight'.

I presume the bag weight is intended to control costs by discouraging class members from purchasing expensive lightweight sails that may provide a marginal increase in performance. That is consistent with my view that the proposal itself is still not cost effective for one-design.

Next up same source: This may refer to Bob Rude who sailed one J/30 NA, in 2000 when it was in nearby Barrington, RI and as noted enjoys PHRF:Since the class currently has no restriction on Pentex® Bob might be surprised to find out both of his mainsails are class legal. Could this refer to Rhapsody's Vectron 'cruising' sail ?

Note my Vectron main is not class legal per the current class rules due to the fabric. It is a weave, not a laminate and looks very much like Dacron. The bag weight is 36 pounds. When I had the sail made I did so with the intention of looking at a cost competitive Dacron alternative that would last longer. It is class legal in all respects except for the fabric.

I also verified with the SNE class that it was acceptable to use the sail for local OD events before the purchase as I wanted to take data on aging. It was agreed this was ok. I believe that anyone who has raced against this sail will say the sail is equally competitive with Dacron, and offers no competitive advantage (my opinion - others would have to comment). It was built with slugs and is used every day, flaked over the boom. Overall I am happy with the shape and aging so far. I have actually reefed this sail for some distance deliveries when the boat was delivered to Cedar Point and Marblehead.

One more for today: The way I heard it, somebody asked Johnstone, 'If J/Boats were building a J/30 today would it have Kevlar sails?' to which he said yes. Nobody asked how much this new J/30 would cost, but I'd say $150-200K while old J/30s currently sell for $5-25K.

The J/109 and J/111 do allow carbon and Kevlar, but J/Boats might consider that their most successful one-design classes remain the J/22, J/24, J/80, J/30 & J/105 all using Dacron mainsails.

Bob,

Weren't you on the last BOG call? That is what I'm referring to visavis RJ; a specific question, a specific response.

In fact, Pentex is currently a legal mainsail cloth, in contradiction of my earlier claim!

The best place to database the approximate weight of J/30 sails would be the class. At this stage the information is all over the map. There are however some dacron mains and some composite mains which are of a comparable weight as reported on the forums.

The bagweight idea is from RJ by the way. This is what the new J/111 class has adopted; perhaps other classes have used this language as well. Velcro lead cheater pockets? A class should be able to easily take care of that one. The intent is indeed to prevent an ultralight sail such as cuben fibre, or perhaps a second generation of such.

Dell - Pentex is allowable under the current rules:

5.12.1.2 Mainsail shall be manufactured from woven ply polyethylene terephthalate ("PET"),such as Dacron®,or woven ply polyethylene naphthalate ("PEN"),such as Pentex®. The spinnaker shall be manufactured from woven ply nylon.

Just a few comments and concerns.

Why are we considering a change in mainsail material? Will it indeed get more J30 to race One Design? Will it make the J30s sailing in PHRF fleet more competitive? I don't think so.

I have sailed in my share of NAs. I have purchased new sails for every two or three NAs. I keep this sails for major regattas, such as the NAs, NOOD's and major one design regatta. I will continue to do so whether the sails are Dacron or high tech. Most of my club racing is PHRF. Even though Cedar Point's Division 2 is made up mostly of J30 in a one design configuration. We always are competitive, even against the non J30s in the fleet with high tech sails This is with '06 one design sails.

I look at this propose change as just a added expense. Maybe an additional $1.800. Unfortunately, I most likely will not sail in another NAs until it returns to RI in 2013. Even if the change is approved I may still purchase a Dacron main.

BTW, Didn't Circus from Chicago win Key West Race Week a few years ago with a Dacron main in one design configuration?

The bag weight issue will also need to be resolved. I'm not in favor of a bag weight. If the purpose is to keep material like Cuben Fiber out. Then why not just ban it!

I have asked the LIS J30 fleet to send their opinion to me about the proposed change. I will consider this when it becomes time to vote on Sept. 15th

John McArthur, LIS Fleet Governor, Past J30 Class co-president.

Based on comments on the forum and private polling here are my numbers with one week remaining before the vote on the proposed change in mainsail material. By my count, if all attend the meeting, there are 17 votes to be cast by the Officers, District Governors, At-Large Members, and J/Boats representative.

Members (% of members), Boats (% boats)

In favor (3):
Pacific Northwest -- 6 (8%), 52 (11%)
Eastern Great Lakes -- 6 (8%), 36 (8%)
Southern New England -- 6 (8%), 35 (8%)
Total Yes -- 18 (27%), 123 (35%)

Opposed (4):
Chesapeake -- 21 (28%), 61 (13%)
Long Island Sound -- 9 (12%), 57 (12%)
Northern New England -- 6 (8%), 50 (11%)
Gulf Coast -- 6 (8%), 48 (10%)
Total No -- 42 (47%), 216 (41%)

Unknown (4):
Western Great Lakes -- 5 (7%), 33 (7%)
Southeast -- 3 (4%), 14 (3%)
Carolina's -- 3 (4%), 7 (2%)
California -- 2 (3%), 25 (5%)
Total ? -- 13 (17%), 79 (24%)

Other -- 0 (0%), 29 (6%)
International -- 2 (3%), 17 (4%)

Total -- 75 (100%), 464 (100%)

Good Afternoon,

After the last BOG meeting I polled the members of the Gulf Coast fleet. These are the active boat owners that we can count on to race during the year.

The numbers are as follows; eigtht out of nine are opposed to changing the class rule on the mainsail material. The main reason is cost to performance ratio.

The meeting will get lively.

Ken
Gov. Gulf Coast Fleet

The proposed change voted on at the board of governors meeting held 15 Sept 2011 was not approved. Details of the BOG meeting and vote will be provided when the minutes of the meeting are posted.