J/30 Class Association Forums J/30 Forum One Design Class Rules Bladder Type Holding Tank

Are bladder type holding tanks in the same spot as my rigid tank an acceptable alternative?

Thanks,
David

David

Is your old tank defective? I will take this up with the rules committee and get back to you.
Larry Christy

Defective? No just getting close to replacement time and was thinking the bladder would be a simpler install and probably a simpler thing to replace in the future.

Ok give me a few days. Is there a deadline?

I would guess there might be a pretty significant weight difference-those plastic tanks are pretty heavy (nothing like excess weight in the pointy end!)

Dbows
What is the weight of your proposed bladder replacement?
Larry Christy

Actually, the empty polyethylene tanks are very light when empty (~15 pounds for 15 Gal tank). A bladder tank of similar capacity is about 6 pounds. Just look at the shipping weights in a Marine catalog for the ballpark comparison. The weight is in the stuff that fills it up! That's comparable to water or ~ 8.4 pounds per gallon.

I don't thing this is a weight issue from a class rules standpoint, but Larry will have to weigh in (pun intended...)

For my money, I want my stuff in a rigid walled polyethylene tank, not some bladder.

Ahhh, but the weight differential increases as the tanks get bigger. A 25 gal polyethylene tank weighs in at 44 pounds (at least according to a Defender Industries listing) while a 25 gal bladder type is still about 6 pounds. I have no idea how big those holding tanks are, but I'm pretty sure they are more than 15 gallons. 36 extra pounds carried well forward is some very serious weight-recall the debate over the stove which is carried much closer to midship and weighs in at only ~12 pounds.

If replacement was permitted, I know I would consider swapping out for the lighter tank setup-I race a bunch of J-29's in PHRF, and weight in the ends is deadly.

Steve - the holding tank is about 14 gallons - you can measure the dimensions and calculate the volume. Think of your 25 gallon analogy above. Cut a 55 gallon drum in half (take the smaller half) and that would be about the size of a tank you describe. No way that sucker fits in the v-berth!

We're talking about a 10 pound differential here on dry weight between a bladder tank and a poly tank. If you store a gallon of fresh water (or beer) that's pretty close to the weight differential. You'll get more mileage out of keeping the tank pumped dry.

No way you'll get me to store a couple of gallons of water forward of the head area! And I don't think I agree with your estimate of the size of the tank-I figure the tank is (at the top) about 3' wide aft, 1' wide forward, and about 3' long. That would be a top surface area of a little over 5 square feet. So conservatively, figure 5 cubic feet of volume (the tank is deeper than one foot, but tapers quite a bit). A gallon of water occupies .1337 cu. ft, so I would estimate 5/.1337=37 gallons.

I can't believe I just wasted so much time on...waste.

I think your dimension estimates are on the large side, but don't have better data to support that without actual measurements. I do know there is no way the holding tank is larger than the potable water tank, which on Rhapsody is 18 Gallons.

Other Data to support the Tank Capacity:
Hull #371 - 14 Gallon Holding Tank
Hull #512 - 10 Gallon Holding Tank
Hull #80 - 12 Gallon Holding Tank
Hull #444 - 10 Gallon Holding Tank

I'll throw in an extra gallon on the largest shown just for you and call it an even 15....

I think mine is 12 - 15 gallons. I know 8-10 flushes is about max before I like to off load when I am cruising.

Anyway I was really just wondering if anyone had done this - I think I will just replace with what I have.

I'm curious if the post '84 models have larger tanks. Mine fills almost the entire forward storage compartment under the v-berth. To my eye, it appears to be significantly larger then the two water tanks combined. Is that what the earlier models have?

Steve - there very well could be a difference in model years and explain why our perceptions on tank size are so different. I've attached a picture of the space between the aft end of the holding tank and the bulkhead on the aft end of the space. The tank occupies about the forward third of that space and flits flush against the bulkhead by the anchor locker. You can estimate dimensions by scaling from the size of the hose (1-3/4" OD) and the 8-1/2" x 11" paper chart taped on the tank.

You also mention two water tanks. Hull 348 only has a single 18 gallon polypropylene water tank under the port settee.

If Rod Johnstone calls in for the BOG meeting on 24 March, I'll ask him what he knows about the tank sizes.


Sanitary Piping Diagram & Valve Lineup

Great picture-it's possible that my memory may be flawed. I'll have a look this weekend. By the way-that is an immaculate (and complicated) set of hoses!

The picture is exactly like mine. Except you could not eat off it as you could Bill's.

following is my "Rules Interpretation" on this issue

A holding tank is required with a capacity equal or greater to the original equipment (about 14 gallons) The tank must be located in the same location as the original tank. Bladder tanks are an acceptable alternative. Installation for discharge must be in accordance with the current federal and state laws

LimeLight hull 51 has a bladder, 14 gal It was installed in the early 90's. And seems to be working just fine and is good for racing. However up in Canda BC there isnt has many pump out as there is in the USA and we find 14 Gal to be a bit small when we are cruising. Thinking about putting in a tank with larger capacity 20 to 25 gal for those summer trips, plus I am not sure what the shelf life of the bladder is and wouldnt want it to fail.

Hello everyone, I live in Santiago, Chile. I will try to express myself in English. I need a detail of the solution for direct discharge of water from the toilet to the outside. somebody could help me? Thanks a lot