J/30 Class Association Forums J/30 Forum One Design Class Rules Class Legal Stove Replacement

OK, I have found the Origio 4100 stove. First, this stove is a counter top model and does not conform to the newer model J30 which is set up for a stove/oven on a bar gimbal. Second, this is a $350 or more addition to make up for 18lbs of weight. I am trying to get my boat ready as a loaner for the North Americans (for the redhead). Can we not get a ruling on this one issue????

Larry Christy,

If you are monitoring this thread, would you please comment on the proposed wording / interpretation for a class legal stove, and the process to get it approved? There are many J/30 owners who would like to move forward with a cost effective replacement while maintaining one design compatibility. Weight & location seem to be the drivers to meet the intent without spending a whole lot of money.

Thanks,
Bill Kneller

In my opinion you are asking for a rule change. I do not have the authority to change the rules I can only interpret the rules. That must be done following the J30 Class By-laws. I may be possible to get this changed at a meeting at the NA's in September but not in time for the 2007 NA's. We can not just pick which rule to "relax" and which one to enforce. They must all be enforced to have a one-design class.

If we change the rule on the stove requirements how do we "measure" boats? How do you know how much weight is where? Does it have to be gimbaled, one or two burners, etc. The easiest way to do this, is do away with the stove requirement all together. If you want to do that get your District Governor to propose it to the Class President for consideration at the next meeting.

Larry Christy
J30 Class Measurer

This still seems unresolved. The rule is not at all specific, other than saying a similar stove may be used. Being that the boat was fitted at various times with very different standard stoves with very different weights, why is the list of acceptable alternates so restricted? The goal of the rule as I see it is to keep the boats as similar as possible, and prevent them being gutted for weight savings. In an area such as this where the rule is very vague, couldn't we get a looser interpretation to encourage boats to participate in OD events without unnecessary expense?

It seems to me that a functioning stove fixed in the original location with a specified minimum weight should comply with the spirit of the rule.

In any case, we need an alternate stove that can be fitted in the post '84 models. We need a clear ruling/interpretation soon so that boats can purchase and install complying equipment in time for the NA's.

Steve -
The Origo 4100 is the only equilivalent stove I could find. If you know of another one please let me know. You could always borrow one from someone who is not doing the NA's

Larry Christy

Larry,

Steve is entirely correct in saying the single model Origo 4100 stove for replacement is too restrictive. The stove "equivalent" isn't going to make any difference in the sailing performance of the boat. I proposed some interpretation wording earlier in this thread that you didn't think would work. Can we ask you to propose alternate wording that could be discussed on this forum that would allow less restrictive (read less costly) stove replacements that hit key parameters such as size, location and weight?

Rule 5.3 appears to give you as class measurer some interpretation leeway in that it allows "equivalent items of comparable weight" and specifically singles out the stove!

5.3 Interior Equipment supplied with the standard boat from the factory may not be deleted or substituted for except by equivalent items of comparable weight (e.g. the stove).

Thanks,
Bill Kneller


[This message has been edited by Rhapsody #348 (edited 08-16-2007).]

I would think we could easily take the 20 lbs out of the Max crew weight ... there seems to be a bit of flexibility there?

Vic #505

Well, thanks again for trying LocoLobo... The good news for J.Doe is we have another loaner boat lined up for the NAs.
The bad news for the J30 Class is the unresolved "measurer" issues that can be logically solved and yet are constantly being trotted out to create dramas. I DO hope that this situation does not keep you from joining the one design racing of your J30...although PHRF is less of a headache? And anything I can do to help you and your wife get to that point, please don't hesitate to call on us. We (J.Doe) have alot of crew from the Annapolis area...and we love to travel to different race venues. Perhaps at the meeting in September the class as a whole will realize (or convince the non believers) that these are not FARR 40s and we are not trying to "bend" the rules to a weight advantage... just trying to keep 25 year old boats on the race course.

Mark, Ann...looking forward to buying you a cocktail.

Happy Sails, Cynthia

The Gulf COast Fleet will loan a couple of stoves if needed. Let us know how we can assist.

Still trying to resolve the stove issue in time for the NA's. The Origo stove that has been approved will not work at all in the post 1984 model. The only stove type that would appear to fit in the space is a gimballed propane two burner by Force 10. The Origo weighs about 12 pounds, the propane models weigh in at 20+ (60 if you get one with an oven as most '84 and later boats were delivered with). The Origo retails around $175, the propane models retail for over $500 (closer to $950 if you get the oven version).

Given that these stoves vary greatly in weight, price, and applicability, I think the class measurer should provide a further interpretation of the very unclear rule as currently written. The current clarification on the books is a Catch 22 for those of us who have later model boats-we are only allowed to carry a stove that simply does not work and cannot be installed in our galley without major (and expensive) modification. And the stoves that do fit the original installation carry an unfair cost burden.

Please deal with this issue asap. I am postponing registering for this year's NA's until I know that I will be able to measure in legally after shipping my boat down to Annapolis.