J/30 Class Association Forums J/30 Forum One Design Class Rules Proposed change in class rules for mainsail cloth materials

After receiving significant input from the class membership and after discussions with various sail makers and with J/Boats the board of governors is proposing that the following revisions to the mainsail material be voted upon at the next Board of governors meeting which will be held at the North Americans in September 2011

The following is the wording as it will read

5.12.1.2 The spinnaker shall be manufactured from woven ply nylon

5.12.1.3 Sailcloth in the mainsail, #1, #2 and #3 Genoa is not restricted. This change in approved main sailcloth goes into effect no later than 1 May 2013. Individual J30 Class Districts may adopt this change for local events at an earlier date.

5.12.2.1 The mainsail minimum bag weight (without battens) shall be not less than 13.6 kilograms (30 lbs).

For completeness using text formatting that would be included in the rules change, here is the full text of what Charlie stated above in the full context of the rules with surrounding paragraphs.

Original:

5.12.1.2 Mainsail shall be manufactured from woven ply polyethylene terephthalate ("PET"), such as Dacron®, or woven ply polyethylene naphthalate ("PEN"), such as Pentex®. The spinnaker shall be manufactured from woven ply nylon.

5.12.1.3 Sailcloth in the #1, #2 and #3 Genoa is not restricted.
This change in approved sailcloth goes into effect no later than October 17, 2005. Individual J30 Class Districts may adopt this change for local events at an earlier date.

5.12.1.4 Sail numbers shall be placed immediately above the third batten (#2 sewn from the head of the mainsail) on the #1 and larger genoa in line with the mainsail numbers and on the spinnaker. The starboard or forward number shall be on top.

5.12.1.5 Genoa #2 is optional and does not need to be on board while racing.

5.12.1.6 Numbers shall be of the following dimensions in solid black, red, green or blue: height = 380mm, width = 254mm, thickness = 57-77mm, spacing = 77mm.

5.12.1.7 Windows. There is no limit on the number or design of collision, telltale, or spreader tip windows on the mainsail or genoas.

5.12.2 Mainsail

5.12.2.1 Minimum cloth weight is 6.25 oz.

Proposed:

5.12.1.2 Mainsail shall be manufactured from woven ply polyethylene terephthalate ("PET"), such as Dacron®, or woven ply polyethylene naphthalate ("PEN"), such as Pentex®. The spinnaker shall be manufactured from woven ply nylon.

5.12.1.3 Sailcloth in the mainsail, #1, #2 and #3 Genoa is not restricted. This change in approved main sailcloth goes into effect no later than 1 May 2013. Individual J30 Class Districts may adopt this change for local events at an earlier date.

5.12.1.4 Sail numbers shall be placed immediately above the third batten (#2 sewn from the head of the mainsail) on the #1 and larger genoa in line with the mainsail numbers and on the spinnaker. The starboard or forward number shall be on top.

5.12.1.5 Genoa #2 is optional and does not need to be on board while racing.

5.12.1.6 Numbers shall be of the following dimensions in solid black, red, green or blue: height = 380mm, width = 254mm, thickness = 57-77mm, spacing = 77mm.

5.12.1.7 Windows. There is no limit on the number or design of collision, telltale, or spreader tip windows on the mainsail or genoas.

5.12.2 Mainsail

5.12.2.1 Minimum cloth weight is 6.25 oz. The mainsail minimum bag weight (without battens) shall be not less than 13.6 kilos (30 US pounds).

Bravo!

Thanks Charlie,
Thanks go to you and others that have pulled this all together. I look forward to the final vote.
No complaints here but a couple of questions/comments;
1. The bag weight seems a bit heavy based on what I my old sails weighed in. I will admit I wasn't very scientific given I stepped on a scale with the sail in my hands. Regardless, just curious how the final bag wieght was determined
2. Also, I note that the date of implementation is moved out from Sept 2012 to May, 2013. Again, just curious as to the thought process

Russ,

The weight is based on a sampling of class legal mainsails that were weighed from multiple sailimakers, with the lightest recorded at 30.5 pounds and heaviest at 36 pounds. This provides some margin of error.

The phase in date is intended to allow those who have recently purchased mains to make sure they do not feel obligated to go out and buy a new mainsail.

My recollection is that the changes in sailcloth have gone into effect three years after they were inacted. This was to allow those of us who bought new sails this year to get at least some use out of them before they become obsolete.

In any event even though it seems a fait acompli, I remain opposed to this change. Adding to the cost of racing these boats is not the way to build one design fleets, particlarly with the state of the economy.

Tom Watson

it may put one's mind at ease to know that Dacron will continue to be legal & competitive, should the new rule be approved

I am pleased that the BOG will change the mainsail materials but the weight restriction of 30# is unsatisfactory. A tape sail will weigh much less and THAT is the whole point of using them. Performance. If as some say there is no real benefit to the light sails then what is the problem with the light materisls. I want to be competitive in PHRF. that is where I sail. I am still buying my next main as LPT Mylar around 25# worth , less if it happens that way.

Those that read this forum know well what my postion is on changing main sail material. I'm on my third string mainsail and too, I've spent some amount of time researching the string sail as part of my background for my comments.

Obviously I'm pleased that there is some movement and I am hopeful that a change will be voted in.

That said, I must admit my deep disappointment with
1. the way the rule is written in regard to sail weight
2. the response to my question about how weight was determined; (The weight is based on a sampling of class legal mainsails that were weighed from multiple sailimakers, with the lightest recorded at 30.5 pounds and heaviest at 36 pounds. This provides some margin of error.)


One has to wonder if the proposed rule is written with the intent that no one would ever buy a string sail that meets class specs, or, there is just total disregard for facts.
I currently have three "string" mains. Two have been weighed and neither weighs 30lbs. Neither of the two that I weighed was built as a "cheater" main with the intent of taking weight out, as I was not concerned with class rules when I bought the sails.

Bottom line, string sails weigh less than Dacron, period. If you are not going to take that into account, if you are not going to allow sailmakers to build string sails of sensible design, unless there is a hidden agenda then why waste your time and the Association's time?

Here's my challenge - contact 3 or 4 sailmakers and ask them what a quality String mainsail should wiegh for a J/30, not what a dacron main weighs.

the intent of bagweight is obviously to prevent cuben fibre - and any other future fibre unknown at present, but similarly extremely light. the intent is to allow (A VOTE ON) modern composite mainsails using current technology. Did anybody WEIGH IN with a mainsail weight that was less than 30# until this minute? It might have been helpful to have the answer at the time the question was posed. Sailmakers were contacted (this was documented here on the forum), and they did not have this info. They can take the order, build the sail, and then weight it.