J/30 Class Association Forums J/30 Forum Racing Tools and Techniques VS the J29 Frac

Hi,

So we are a new owner, and we have never sailed our boat or any J30 for that matter. But, we did own a J29 MH about 10 years back. It was a machine. I have high hopes for the 30 plus all the creature comforts that come with it. The 30 should be a great boat for us now that we have a family and the boat is going to be something more than a place just to keep beer.
We are going to race w/ the 163 and the penalty pole. I guess the 29 Frac has a penalty pole, but I'm pretty sure it races w/ a 155. We have 2 of them in our club.
I know we add about 1,000 pounds to the J30, but other than the weight is there any significant differences between the 30 and the 29 frac?
The PHRF difference is pretty significant. The 29 frac will owe us 18 sec per mile. I feel pretty good about that.
Anyone want to give me some anecdotal feedback.
I'm kinda starved for racing info and stories....
Thanks,
Chris
Falcon Hull #16
Duluth, MN
Western Lake Superior

Basically the same hull minus a foot or so of topsides, though the J/29 keel is a little deeper at 5.6' vs 5.25' for J/30. You'll have to work harder to keep your new boat flat. Also since you now will actually go below, manage your cruising gear so you don't accumulate excess weight. There was once a member of our fleet who was some speed issues. On board we found a full set of Corelle plates, bowls and stainless flatware plus a copy of Chapman's. You'll want to leave those at home when you are racing.

Definitely focus on keeping the unnecessary weight down and managing crew weight as needed. You need that crew weight going upwind in any kind of breeze (we have kicked ass with 10 newbies on board) but shaving of a few hundred when the wind is down makes a difference (when we are doublehanded, I can keep up with a fully crewed J/29 MHOB downwind, even in a breeze).

Under PHRF, there is a lot of variety out there on what sails to use. A few boats want as much sail as possible and have a 170%. Our home base has stronger winds so we have had big success dropping the #1 all together (#2 only) and using a roachier code 6 main (9 second credit); this was especially helpful in shorthanded racing.

We have several J/29s and (had) J/30s at RYC in NJ which have been racing in our A2 spinnaker fleet. I think it is fair in winds above ten knots the two boats are very competitive. Blue Meanie and Fuzzy Wuzzy which are well sailed J/30s have consistently competed well against the 29s. In lighter winds the 30s do well against the fracs but the MHOBs become very tough. As stated in an earlier email take anything not needed out of the boat. Also spend the time to set up the rig (with Presto prior to centering the rig we were fast on port and not as fast on starboard. After centering the boat speed on starboard was more in line with the opposite tack.). Also make sure you are tuning for the wind conditions. Both fleets spend the prep time on the bottoms and also on the keel. Fresh sails will help with boat speed.

Crew work is critical as well as weight distribution. Having the crew weight forward is very important. We also play the back stay, traveler and main fine trim upwind to balance the helm. This makes a huge difference and we can keep our time vs the 29s. Downwind becomes more difficult for us (Presto) especially in light air, but Blue Meanie does better in this category.

My opinion is with the same level of crews the two boats are very competitive. The debate between J/29 and J/30 owners about the two as racers continues at RYC but there is no debate when it comes to the overnights.

I hope you enjoy your new toy and are competitive. If you have access to a trailer you should come East for the NAs. If you come early you are welcome at RYC for practice against the J/29s and J//30s. Even if the boat can not come and you can I am sure we can get you a ride to see first hand.

John has hit all the key points well. The challenge is in light air (2-8 knots or so)-the boat gets quite sticky in those conditions, and you will end up spending more time in dirty air (especially tough in our fleet since we have 4 MH 29's, an Olson 30 and a Santana 3030 that all excel in very light conditions...).

That said, a very light 30, Fuzzy Wuzzy (300 pounds lighter than my boat) was very competitive in very light conditions against the 29's. So John's comments (and Bob's) about weight and crew position are on target.

It's a great boat-you will enjoy it. Performance won't match the MH 29 in the light stuff-however when the winds are above about 14 knots and you have full crew on board-you will be very happy. Hint-carry the #1 until you are unable to keep the main from flogging.

Thanks.
So I think weight placement is a good topic.
Talk more about weight fore and aft.
In light air downwind, do you push the crew weight way forward and try to get the big back end out a little bit.
How bout upwind? Do you keep weight relatively neutral fore to aft or do you bias a little bit to the bow??

Thanks,
Chris

Hi Chris,

I like the UK tuning guide (link to it on the front page), it is a great read. At the end of it is a great section on weight placement (see below). I keep a printed out copy on Madcap as a reminder for my crew. Everybody likes to gravitate aft.

Weight Placement

Crew placement on the J/30 reflects two design characteristics of the boat. First the keel is small for its sail area. Second, the boat tends to sit down in the stern, a problem compounded by the fact that maximum beam (wetted surface) is carried well aft. This means you have to work on keeping crew weight well forward in most conditions. There is a natural tendency to congregate in the cockpit which must be discouraged. ( There are some boat control system changes which can really help. Give us a call and we'll be happy to go over some of the standard modifications).

In light air, upwind and down, the crew should be up by the shrouds, or huddled at the base of the mast. Heel the boat as much as possible. If you have a particularly dedicated crew, send all but the primary trimmer down below. It makes a remarkable difference. As the breeze increases the crew can gradually move up to the rail and aft to the point of maximum beam. The only time you need to move aft is on tight spinnaker or jib reaches, when you are at maximum heel or beginning to get overpowered.

From experience you will find that the boat like to be sailed as flat as possible. Translated, this means as flat (or with a little feel to the helm) as the driver can stand and still keep the boat in the groove. This will keep the small keel in the water and doing its job. The boat will get a mushy-almost slow-feeling just as it really gets hooked up. Sometimes, if you have it going, you can sail virtually upright even in light air. This should be your goal. Careful, as soon as you feel slow, put the heel back on. Make sure the boat is well heeled out of tacks and through waves.

A well-trained crew will react to changes in velocity and the fell of the boat automatically. Moving to leeward and forward if the breeze dies or the boat feels slow, and back up to weather when the boat heels over, or when the driver gets dialed up. The helmsperson should constantly communicate, and let everybody know how much heel the boat needs.[/i]

I sure was I read this thread before last weekend's regatta !