J/30 Class Association Forums J/30 Forum The Boat, Sails and Equipment weather helm

I co-own a S2 7.9 with a partner. He just purchased a 1979 vintage J-30 in Oklahoma. We have sailed it twice and have discovered the boat has severe weather helm in moderate to high wind ranges. Is this common on this boat and if so, is there a way to correct it?

Pretty much the obvious stuff...

Use a smaller headsail.

Flatten the main... backstay on, outhaul on tight. Drop the traveler.

If possible, sail flatter. Heeling induces weather helm.

Things you can do before going out... add pre-bend: tighten the uppers. This will again make the main flatter.

Reduce rake: shorten the headstay.

You should be able to get a nicely balanced helm on a beat. On a reach in a breeze unfortunately, that's pretty much the nature of the beast.

uummmm...its not called a gorilla helm for nothing... it always blows here in the islands... my favorite helmsman is 6.5, 240 and very fit...it kicks his butt.... so much that the last regatta he told me I have to get a bigger boat.. So now I have a new helmsman to sacrifice to the gods...

Weather helm is real common, especially for those of use with maximum rake on the mast.

I've heard of people modifying the rudder, to add rudder forward of the pivot point. I don't believe this is kosher for one-design and you'd probably take a hit in PHRF, but it's supposed to work. I believe this was a forum topic some time ago.

If I may, I'd like to add my $0.02 to something previously mentioned. "Use a smaller headsail". I'd disagree. Weather helm is caused by the center of effort being aft of the center of resistance (the keel). This is caused by an imbalance of force aft of the keel. To correct that, you need more force forward of the keel, or less aft. So to correct weather helm you could reef the main or depower the main, or put up a bigger headsail. My J loves her #1 and is best balanced with it up.

agree
I like th ebig headsail better too.... much better to reef a little to early
AND I found out that in a blow its faster to forget about perfect sailshape of the main and let her out,actually quite a bit, just barely before it starts flogging ....

If somebody told me that earlier I would have not believed him either. Just try it.

......I race beercans with the wife only, I dont have 6 heavyweights on the rail, Her 120 lbs dont make a whole lot of differnece to keep the boat flat

thor

I 'spose the big headsail/reef vs small headsail/full main discussion has gone on for quite a while. Personally, I'm in the smaller headsail/full main camp, especially when there are waves to drive around. We're set up to pretty easily flatten the main with backstay and flattening reef (if necessary).

I've been in races where they are both used, and someone else is sailing with a #2... and we arrive at the windward mark (almost) at the same time.

It is important to distinguish between weather helm, and helm load. The J/30 rudder is not balanced and may carry loads larger than you are used to even at neutral or small angles of attack. This is not weather helm, but rather heavy rudder load that you have to carry, and can feel in the tiller. I do not believe this load is excessive, but some helmsman used to highly balanced rudders seem to be bothered by it.
The best way to counteract the load and maintain speed and height (without adding a balanced rudder) is weight on the rail.

On the subject of rudder balance and helm required....

Is the Raymarine ST4000+ and/or the ST4000+ Grand Prix model tiller pilot big enough to handle the load?

I've been considering getting one for a few years. The times that I'd most need a tiller pilot are likely those when I'm shorthanded, so balancing the boat with rail meat to reduce autopilot load isn't an option.

Thoughts?

An ST4000+ or especially and ST4000+ Grand Prix should be more than adequate. I did a lot of singlehanded racing in the '80s with an Autohelm 2000 and cruised extensively in Mexico with an Autohelm 2000+ in 1999. The key as you would expect is in aggressively balancing the boat and sailplan. When off the wind the autopilot drove nicely with when wing and wing with a double-reefed main on one side and a poled out 150% roller furling jibtop on the other. I would roll a little jib in or out to fine tune the balance.

Anyone used a Navico TP5500? A guy here in the yard is selling it...don't know enough about it to make an offer... all I've ever heard is that the tillerpilots weren't strong enough...so this input is great.