J/30 Class Association Forums J/30 Forum Racing Tools and Techniques Heavy Air Trim/Setup

In other recent threads in this forum, it has been suggested that the J30 is weak in light airs and strong in heavy air. I have always had the opposite experience. We have been strong against a variety of boats in light winds (under 10 knots) while having difficulties in heavier winds (over 18 kts). Admittedly, our experience is primarily in lighter winds.

I think I understand the basics for heavy air trim but I must be missing something. We flatten out the main with the outhaul, pull the draft forward with the cunningham, pull the traveller up and let the main twist off with the sheet. We also pull good and hard on the vang and try to vang sheet like the J24s do. The backstay is pulled on good and hard to help flatten the main and the forestay. The genoa lead is moved aft to match the twist in the main.

We also try to carry lots of crew weight to hold the rail down some. But I have a hard time keeping the boat flat (less than 15 degrees).

What other methods are used? Does anybody move the rig forward before leaving the dock when winds are expected to be heavy? We typically change down to the #3 early (~15 kts) to keep the boat flat but I'm concerned that this may slow us down. I know that its recommended to carry the #1 up to about 18 kts but we just get way overpowered.

Any help is appreciated.

alan we race on lake erie phrf and have wind most of the time in the 0-5 or 15-25 we never get off easy the waves are steep and close. we never use the vang up wind(if you are trying to twist the vang will pull the top batten in and stall the sail)number one is used to 15 true and the number 2 is the smallest we will use,the 2(#3 IF LIGHT CREW AND/OR 25+TRUE) is the most underused sail in the J30 FLEET or so it seemes from the postings.
paul battin

I have carried the #1 in 20-25 knots on more than one occasion. We do all the normal stuff and... We crank the rig down hard to 3000# on the uppers and lowers. Our main has a flattening reef and we put it in. The main doesn't fill much and is flat as a barn door. Perhaps the most important thing is to feather the boat into the wind and sail a scalloped course. We trim the #1 to about 8-12 inches from the spreader tip and in the puffs I luff about the foreward 1/3 of the sail. It's touchy luffing just enough to keep her on her feet while maintaining speed, but you get used to it. I try to keep her from going beyond 20 degrees of heel. Note that the water is quite flat here. I grew up on Lake Erie and Carlyle at it's worst is like a calm quiet day on Erie.

This is PHRF fleet racing and we may just manage these conditions better then the rest of the boats we've been with but the boat is almoast amazingly fast compared to our competition in conditions like this. Now if we just always managed tactics and strategy as well as sail trim!!


I should note that we end up in this situation because we do a lot of non-spinnaker racing on short courses. There is no time to change sails; you don't even have time to reef the main. There is a striking speed difference between the #3 and #1 off the wind at 20 - 25 knots true. I think if I owned a #2 that was less than 22 years old I'd use it a lot.

[This message has been edited by Mark (edited 02-07-2001).]

On Bebop, we change to the #2 at about 20 apparent and the #3 at 24, since our crew is usually only about 1200 lbs. From 18 up, mainsheet is as tight as you can get without hooking the upper batten, outhaul and cunningham on, vang pulled on with the main trimmed. I play the traveler, controlling heel and helm pressure, constantly talking to my skipper, and dropping it any time the helm loads up. We don't vang sheet until dropping the traveler has no effect. But, usually with the traveler all the way down, the main is barely working. I don't like to feather until we are thinking about a reef and #3 at 30. If you feel slow with the #3 blade, ease it and inch or two, drop the traveler and put the bow down. Strapping the #3 is slow.

Alan, you don't mention rig set-up. We tighten the rig to about 2000lbs upper and lower, if i think it will be really gusty I may shorten the headstay an inch from max, this seems to allow better control of headstay tension and let's us flatten the entrance of the blade a bit better. (shorten the headstay BEFORE you tighten the shrouds!!!) We often sail with 1200lbs crew, and some of our crew won't hike, so we hurt in the heavy stuff too.

Mark, you must have a later boat with 3/8" shrouds - according to my Loos gauge (and the tuning guide, by the way) the max tension on our 1981 model with the 1/4" shrouds is ~2000lbs. Am I missing something? Most of the local J/29's use the 3000lb range I think, they all have 3/8" rigging.

John in Halifax

Our usual shroud tension is 39-41 which at the high end if off the chart on the Loos gauge. In a breeze I like to add 2-4 full turns on lowers then uppersto 43-44 (a turn at a time on each side switching back and forth). People have been experimenting with rig tension around here, very loose in the light stuff. We used to shorten the headstay 2-6 turns and will if we think the breeze will hold, but generally we don't see too many days on the Cheaspeake with sustained winds over 20.

How loose is loose (on the Loos)? Was Mousetrap using loose settings in Barrington this summer on the light air days, and if so, how did boat speed/point seem to measure up?

I have 1/4 inch shrouds. I've been tuning them to a J24 tuning guide times 3. The heavy setting is off the scale and extrapolated. I'm not sure it's really 3000 and I don't have the guide in front of me. I looked some Up and it might be 2600 that I shoot for. At the other end in light air I have been putting about 1000 on the uppers and 750 lowers.

I like to sail to boat like a J24 too. No twist, vang sheeting, I drive and manage the main as well (I've always thought of the main as an extension of the rudder anyway)...

No, Mousetrap wasn't doing anything unusual on Sunday at the NA's when it was extremely light. I didn't do the tune, but I believe the skipper loosened things up, probably to about 38 or so. We struggled, but I think it was picking the wrong side and missing a couple big shifts. Speed wise we were fine compared to boats around such as eventual winner Sea Biscuit. The were just smarter. As to the 'radical' rig tension, you'll have to talk to the North guys. As I understand it, in light air they are use very loose lowers to allow the middle of the sail to fall off to leeward.

As for Mark trimming his own main, more power to you if you can handle it. I was impressed to see Arbella's skipper trimming his own main in a breeze Friday at Barrington. The skipper can feel the helm load up and react quicker, plus it gets another body out of the back of the boat. But most people can't do both when it blows. Even on Arabella I could see it was making the helm less effective than on Sea Biscuit.
I don't get to drive much, but I find it easier to play the traveler than vang sheet when I'm handling both the tiller and the main.