J/30 Class Association Forums J/30 Forum The Boat, Sails and Equipment Rudder search

BlewJ broke her rudder, split 14" down the forward edge, between pintels, saturating the balsa of course. A lot of torque on this rudder as we all know. So, I went to the "Equipment" tab, called JBoat Composites (TPI) to order a new one as listed: $863.00. Michael Trinidad of TPI says there has been an increase in the price: $2,875! Excuse me? The TPI price page saiys it was updated 2 years ago, that more than gasoline rose in the last year! What gives? He says that they are the "only game in town since they have the "official and approved" molds to make new rudders under class rules. Gentlemen (and Ladies), I submit that this is extortion at it's best and I ask you to join me in protesting to the rules committee that this restriction be changed. Three other companies that I have contacted said that they would be happy to make our rudders but we are wed to TPI it seems by our own rules. Time to change I think. What route is best to take? Anyone know the correct proceedure to petition the Chief Handicapper or rules committee? Thank you for your indulgence. JOHN Blew J 235

You are right. Highway robbery. One of the attractions of the J30 is affordable performance one-design racing. Let's take a sample of non-water logged rudders weight and set a minimum weight standard. Dimensions can be templated. Build to these specs in same materials as original equipment at a reasonable price and you can become an official supplier to the class.

Please be so kind as to forward to me the email addresses of the folks who you contacted to make a new rudder. I'm not interested in a J30 race spec rudder but one that will last another 20+ years at a reasonalbe cost. Email me at herbertclifton@hotmail.com. Thanks.

Wait a second.... TPI still has the molds????

I've heard all about some kind of fire there in which a lot of the J/30 stuff was lost. Or is this a case of TPI using an existing rudder as a template to make new molds?

Yas, according to TPI - or Jboat Composits to be exact, they have the mold as he was describing how they make them and still use BALSA - some people never learn. Foss Foam in Fla. (352-529-1104 - Jeanette) was one of the companies and one company in Canada and one in the NW that I don't have here right now.
I agree, set a standard weight (they are very heavy!) and planeform - how hard can it be? I learned today that another company in Annapolis (Mueller Marine I am told) will take your rudder, slice it longways, remove about 1/2" down the center, reseal and fair it and...it's class legal! Seems as the "stock" rudder is over fat but cannot be taken down as the laminate is too thin - hence "lowering" it. I think we can work on the weather helm issue this way but hey, I'm not a marine engineer. JOHN

This goes in the same vain as a post a month or so ago about a new boom and issues with RigRite. The precedent has been set with other suppliers and I think we need to also do this on other parts of the boat that are going to continue to be problematic, such as the rudder.

David
#397

agree...

I dont have the money to travel ( or time) to OD events, therefore I would buy any rudder, especially if it is 1/3 less the price ......

that would mean one possible OD boat less...
( which is a real bad thing )
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Now if it is class legal to tune a rudder ( making it thinner, etc etc... than these replacement rudders should incorporate these allowances.....maybe even more.

Plus it would be nice to have a little weatherhelm removed.

If somebody would offer such a rudder I would think that quite a few folks would buy one .... making it very interesting for a supplier to put some effort into it.

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rig rite .. I am sorry I have tried a couple times, but it is a miracle to me that a company can be still around who operates like that.... The best was an telephone call 10 months after my original question. I am not kidding. They have this funky excuse of having a fire .... which happened 2 years ago to my best knowledge.... anyhow I digress
lets get a reasonable modern affordable rudder......


Thor

FYI - it was Rigrite that burned to the ground...with all the drawings of the metal bits on a J30. It is "arguable" that they are still in business. They can't even answer a phone. Metal bits are on file with Tops In Quality...in one of those midwest states....
TPI is still there...and charging for their "custom" services... anyone priced their handrails for the deck? $280.00 each

Wow I thought TIQ was expensive for handrails at $195 apiece. At least they answer the phone (-:

David
#397

[This message has been edited by dbows (edited 07-28-2006).]

I think an older class like the J/30 needs to maintain a flexible attitude on suppliers and other 'original equipment' issues. More and more of these boats are going to undergo overhauls that won't be economically feasible without bringing in competitive vendors and allowing for the introduction of more modern materials like epoxy, foam core, etc. in repairs and replacement parts like the rudder. These are not performance enhancing choices, they are economically driven. TPI's rudder price is outrageous, and I think its likely that the final product will be inferior to a vendor that specializes in reproducing foils for various classes.

If your foam core and epoxy rudder weighs the same and features the same profile, I'd say that good enough. Introducing a rudder that weighs 30% less is definitely not in keeping with the one-design spirit. I'd recommend some rules on these issues that were built around weight and geometry rather than vender and materials.

I'm rebuilding a huge section of my hull and everything under the floor. Will I re-introduce vermiculite and polyester resin under the floor? - not a chance. Does this mean my boat will no longer be class-legal - sadly, that's pretty much my expectation (this is especially a bummer since I've got a trailer and like the idea of traveling for some class regattas). But, my boat will be safe, trouble free and easy to maintain, which is by far my first priority.

My boat will be structurally different after these repairs, though based on my materials estimates it will weigh as much or more than the original configuration. For me its a choice about economics, feasibility of the repair and ongoing durability. The other options are 15-20k+ at TPI or letting this otherwise excellent boat rot in the yard. I think that taking a liberal position on replacement parts and materials (with reasonable limitations), and strict rules on weights, rigging, sails and foil shapes could keep these old boats going, while preventing a price=performance arms race that results in low budget boats no longer being competitive.

I still don't think there is any other boat out there with the J/30 blend of qualities. It would be very cool if people became interested in investing in rebuilding these older boats (much like the J/24 world) to keep this large pool of boats racing. I know personally of dozens of J/24s that have been brought back from the brink to competitively race again. This very successful and reasonably priced one design class allows rudders from multiple vendors. We race a $2500 J/24 against a new $40,000 boat and our boat speed seems on par. I'd say the J/30 Class should consider this model.

Rich