J/30 Class Association Forums J/30 Forum The Boat, Sails and Equipment PHRF Racers: Code 6 Mainsail or "Please pass me the roach"

I am just wondering if any primary PHRF racers out there have tried powering up in the main and what your experience with it has been. I am still new to my J/30 with BAGGED OD sails so my experience evaluating performance is limited.

Ignoring the recent Southern Straits race, we normally race in predominately light air in the PNW, or in my Squamish micro-climate, moderate to heavy air with flat water. My local Quantum sailmaker who, to his credit, is known for building very fast sails, is adamant that the J/30 has an underpowered main and would benefit significantly by moving to a Code 6 main with larger roach. Given that with enough weight on the rail, that big #1 can be carried right up over 20 kts apparent making the #2 basically useless I would tend to agree; when I tell most left coasters this J/30 habit, their jaws tend to drop as most boats don't hoist the #1 over 10-15. Perhaps a larger main and greater use of the #2 would be beneficial.

Since I don't have any opportunity to OD race, maximizing boat fun in PHRF (within a tiny budget) is the name of the game for me, so this idea intrigued me. as luck would have it, I came across a beat up old mylar J/29 FR sail with a 38' hoist and full batten pockets (I made my own battens out of 3/8" fibreglass rod; again, budget). $140 for the sail, $20 for clear ductape re-inforcing the leech and $80 for batten material and I had a Code 6 test sail for under $250. The roach on this main laps the backstay by about 6-8" (light air tacks can be slightly challenging) and I took a 3 second hit on the certificate (I now rate 136 with old sail credit, J+1 pole and 163 headsail).

Sunday was the first race with it and in challenging conditions. Depending on where we were on the race course, the wind varied between <5 kts to 15kts. We took first overall over two races and came from behind and beat the fleet handily both in line honours and corrected during the first race. We flew the #3 in the first race which was under powered when the wind shut down, yet we still maintain good boat speed. For the second race, we first hoisted the #2 and then changed to #1 when the wind was quiet. of course, we ran into ~15 kts true after the sail change and it became obvious that we were overpowered at that point (~1200 lbs on the rail). The boat was not as flat as it needed to be with lots of weather helm, but lowering the traveller and opening the leech still allowed us to keep up to the Ericson 33 who has over a foot more LWL, and my arms lasted the final 15 minutes. For a $250 sail, I am more than impressed with the performance gain over my bagged one design sails but comparing a bagged dacron to a shapely mylar is probably apples to oranges (Red Five and I will need to go heads up to see if there is any noticable performance differences )

Observations:
1. The wind ranges we all know and love for the headsails go out the window. I am thinking #1: 0-15 #2: 10-20 #3: 20+ apparent (more testing needed, but it is definitely more powerful and the #2 now seems to be my go-to sail). Carrying only a #2 might even pay-off with the rating credit but I am not one to make a boat slower for better rating optimization :P

2. The cut of this sail has the boom almost 90 degrees to the mast allowing for much greater room and safety in the cockpit. This, along with the extra roach seems to make the sail much more sensitive to trim changes (e.g. tiny mainsheet/backstay tension adjustments have a huge impact on the leech shape)

3. I am too cheap, but tapered battens are probably necessary. The draft is too far back with my current set-up.

4. Tacks in light air require more thought to get the battens through timely. Slack in the vang, release main sheet and tension on the back stay to make the leech as soft as possible gets it through. The main trimmer really needs to be on her game to get that mainsheet back in as quickly as possible once the leech clears and the driver needs to steer a little lower to keep the main powered up until she gets it back in.

5. Dowind performance seems to be a pretty big game. We pulled away from a Martin 242 downwind (albeit, maybe not sailed all that well). As other PNW racers can attest, those boats are as annoying as hell with their gift ratings and speedy down wind performance in moderate air. Making tracks on it made me giggle like a school girl.

Since I am saving my pennies for a new main next year, I am will need to decide if I smoke the roach or stay on the straight and narrow. I am interested to hear from more experienced J/30 sailors as to their thoughts on powering up the sail plan. I realize I may be peeing on some hallowed ground by questioning whether the OD sail dimensions are really the optimal sail for our boat.

Sorry for the long read, but what else are you going to do at work when you are not sailing!

Scott

I am not sure what you see is just because of roach. I have a feeling it was more due to a flatter sail shape which is much better for speed than a deep sail - particularly in flat water.

How much time do you spend tuning the rig? Getting the correct prebend in the mast may help move the draft forward with more halyard tension and cunningham.

Also the roach on my main also overlaps the backstay by about the same amount so not sure it really has more roach.

I think it can work but you better have a sailmaker that will invest a lot of time in getting it right. If you don't then I would stick with OD sail sizes since we all know they fit the rig once the rig is tuned and there is a lot of info on how to tune to the sails.

New sails are going to be much faster than what you have - period .

Scott,

Good idea. Something I have thought about for my next main. Local PHRF my dictate otherwise. Do you have any girth measurements on the sail? Next step is a high-tech rope backstay with a flicker.

The full battens are helping a bit too.

My upper girth measurement is 5.65 feet and mid-girth 8.83 feet (2691 mm). Mid-girth exceeds class rules by only a few inches . Compared to my old ODR sail, it is significantly fatter in the upper girth though.

David, it is very likely that most of the increased performance I saw was due to a flatter shape. I do know that with the main sail alone there is significantly more heel in the sail even when flattened than my old bagged sail. Maybe my butt power meter is lying to me. I still am interested though, what others think about adding more roach (i.e comparing new to new, same material).

I haven't spent a lot of time turning the rig to specs found here (step needs to move forward I know). My uppers and lowers are about 1400 and 1200 respectively measured by a Loos (the larger model). I am gun-shy about having an overtight rig and since that was the first time using the tension gauge I was hesitant to crank up to tighter 16-1800. The rig tune also depends a lot on sail cut so I am not bright enough to estimate the rig need for this new sail (rake, pre-bend etc.)

I appreciate the help! Keep it coming!

I am a huge believer in going with a Code 6 or Code 7 main for fractional rigs in PHRF....pays huge dividends up wind and down....only downside is that to properly fit it you typically need to mount a backstay flicker...although with a swept rig that is less of an issue then with an inline rig.

Your sailmaker (Dave) is bang on. I say go for it. Go with a Code 6 main and stay with a Code 5 headsail and your crew will also thank you. I seem to recall one of the Frac, rigged J/29's (Rhumbline ????) did the same idea and seemed to recall they were fairly happy with the results.

More power! If you do not OD and it does not wildly change your rating then why not?

To get the most out of the increased roach, if you do not have a fine tune then you should invest in one. It gives you absolute control over the upper 1/4 of the sail and with a bigger roach you will need finer control over leech tension.

Your sailmaker can help with the rig tune. Most important is to find the right amount of bend ( ratio of upper tension to lower tension - not overall tension ) for the sail they make - and they should be able to help you dial that in by how much luff curve they put into the sail. Once you get that right you can tighten or loosen for wind - just keep the same ratio.

Also you can get a bit more room on the backstay in light air by taking a strong bungy cord with hooks on the ends and running it from the top of one vertical cockpit stanchion (ones closes to tiller) inside the backstays and then connect to the other stanchion. This will pull it back a few inches as well as keep it out of your way when you tack.

Scott,

I have an archived email discussion between the previous owner of my boat and Dave Cross at Quantum regarding a large roach main in my file cabinet downstairs. In the end the previous owner stayed with OD specs and bought from North... though I seem to remember him saying that he regretted not "turbo-ing" the main later. If I remember correctly Dave also suggested a smaller headsail as part of the formula (maybe 155?) to ease the rating hit. I'll see if I can dig up his old recommendations. Dave certainly makes fast sails and tends to know what he's talking about so I'd think about it carefully.

The rating hit seems significant as I am now rated 142 with old sails credit and my 163 headsail, and this after a base rating adjustment this year (maybe that Viking 33 that I beat by 1 sec corrected last summer took offence and appealed). A two boat testing programme sounds like fun though. How about main sails only next time you're in town?

BTW Scott, Wednesday night racing starts on the 21st. Let me know if you are in town one of these weeks and I'll try and find a crew spot for you.

I took only a three second hit for the main. So with a code 5 main I would be 139 (base OD 145). My certificate also carries a six second hit for the 0.5 oz spinnaker I have; I didn't think it was larger than class so perhap I measured wrong! I'd definitely be interested in comparing certs. Funny thing is, I am happy carrying a lwoer rating so I am more likely to be accepted into the Van Isle 360 if it doesn't fold (max 135 rating, but they don't say no to close rated boats).

Mainsail only would yield good comparison. I think your OD main is newer than this mylar sail.

is the .5 around 34 X 21? I think that would be " ok standard"
6 sec is an overreactive penalty!

I just got my J/30 home this weekend and will be sending in for my BC Sailing certificate shortly_.I will let you know the numbers once I get them and we can do a cert. comparison_Cheers R.